Episode 129. Going Scared with Jessica Honegger

Unedited Transcript

Jess. I am so excited to have you on the show today. You are somebody that I've wanted to get to know for a long time, and it just feels so fun to get to talk about your book. So I just want to thank you for being honest. Thanks for having me. It's it's the best way to spend a Friday morning, right?

Podcasting is so fun. So your book imperfect courage. Was it 2019. Was it 2019? It was the end of 2018. Ah, okay. I thought it was late 2018, early 20, 19. Okay. So imperfect courage. This was previous to the pandemic, but it was interesting as I was prepping for this and I thought, Holy cow, this is like the best conversation to have right now.

And I just want to back up and let you sort of. Just share with us how God led you to this phrase. Your podcast is called the going scared podcast. And so just this imperfect courage going scared type of. Type of thought, like, how did God lead you to this? And then what does it mean to you? Tell us all about it.

Thank you so much for having me on this is really fun. This is the perfect way to spend a Friday. And you know, when I think about courage, I always thought about Rosa parks, Martin Luther, King, mother, Teresa, these people that felt really out of reach to me. They didn't feel like they had anything to do with my life.

But when about in 2009, when the recession hit. And my husband and I were working in real estate. We were living on fumes and we were right smack dab in the middle of the adoption process. We had two kids old fashioned way and then decided to bring Jack into our family through adoption. And we had a little nest egg and we felt very comfortable like, okay, we're going to adopt, we've got a nest egg.

We know international adoption is really expensive. And we began to pursue adopting from Rwanda. And we were halfway through the process when the market crashed and you did not want to be working in real estate. And during the last recession, that was, that was kind of where it all began. So that little nest egg that we were comfortably using for our adoption expenses was soon paying the grocery bills.

And soon we were piling up debt because. What do you do when you are a house flipper during a recession, and we didn't want to stop the adoption process. We really felt like this is what God was leading us to. We had already kind of identified a child. So I knew I needed to start some sort of side hustle.

And at the time I had met some friends previously who were trying to. Create opportunity for Ugandans Ugandan entrepreneurs. And this was this young couple named Julia and Daniel. One of the businesses they were trying to help with was an artisan business. So they had partnered with Julia and Daniel who had made beautiful things.

They had sent the stuff to America, it had sold just a handful of things. And then it was just languishing in a storage unit. My friends had told me about this. And they said, we want to create opportunity for jolly and Daniel. They could be the next leaders of Uganda. Would you maybe think about selling their things?

And when my friends said this, my real estate business was doing great. I had these two kids, you know, going through the adoption process and I just, I kind of chuckled inside, like, My plates full. That's really sweet of, you know, I don't have time for that. Well, fast forward a few months later, and courage cornered me, courage came to find me.

And that is when we were living off fumes and I realized I needed to do something in order to finish this adoption. So I had recalled this previous conversation and thought, well, maybe I could. Start selling some jewelry and maybe, you know, at the time I was like, maybe that'll be like a one night fundraiser.

I'll sell some jewelry, then I'll do, um, you know, garage sales. And, you know, I was just thinking like all the different things I could call together. So I called it, my friends in Uganda and I said, Hey, is that offer still on the table? And they said, absolutely. That stuff is just still sitting there. And so I went, I picked it up, I dusted it off.

And I just invited a bunch of people over to my house to shop this Uganda and jewelry and also to shop my clothes and my grandma's dishes and whatever else that could be sold. And I just remembered that day feeling very afraid. Yeah. I was so afraid that no one was going to come. And I was tying my identity to the outcome of what that would mean.

Yup. Okay. No, one's going to come. And therefore that means I'm a loser. I'm rejected. I don't belong. I don't have friends. I don't have people that will show up for me then I thought, okay. What if they do come, I look like a, like a desperate person. We're still trying to make it as realtors. No one wants to hire a realtor who you know, is having to sell their clothes in order to make it.

And all of these narratives were going through my mind that all ultimately had to do with identity things, and I wanted to call it all off. And instead of doing that, I just remember thinking I'm, I'm just kind of feel the feelings I'm going to be afraid and I'm going to go anyway. And that night changed my life because people did come and instead of being embarrassed, I was bolstered.

Yeah. And instead of. You know, we think that vulnerability is, you know, gonna mean embarrassment, shame, whatever else. It's actually the opposite actually, when we're vulnerable and we invite other people into our place of need. That's the only way they know. Oh, my gosh. I want to, I want to help meet that need.

And so, so women's showed up a lot of women. I didn't know, people brought friends and, and people loved the jewelry. They loved these, these handmade items. They loved rallying around this adoption journey. And I texted my friends living in Uganda the next day. And I said, almost everything is sold out.

Thank you. Thank you so much. And they tested back and said, well, hang on. What if you did this again, what if you, what if we connected you directly to Jolie and Daniel and you began to order product from them? And so I said, okay, I'm just going to go. I'm just going to do it. And so they connected me to jolly and Danielle who at the time, um, didn't have a home.

They were having to go to an internet cafe to communicate with me, had two kids. They were literally digging. In gardens, other people's gardens for potatoes to eat. I mean, just did not have money. And they unbeknownst to me when I said, Hey, can you send me some jewelry? They didn't know how to do the items.

I was asking them to do paper beads and stuff, but they just went scared too. They just had absolutely. Absolutely. So they went, figured it out and we just started together and, you know, 10 years later, we're 10 years in, just was on the phone with Julia this week. And they're flourishing. They have, um, three children that are receiving the best education.

They now have hundreds of people throughout their community that, that make paper beads for Noonday collection joined Danielle have opened their own stores and Uganda that, I mean, they look like the cutest anthro stores when you go. I mean, it's just amazing. It's truly, it really is. It's, it's quite humbling.

And it all came from me being vulnerable with a need that we had basically financially and inviting other people into that place of need. And, and then me walking into other women's homes and just, you know, walking through that generosity, um, it's just, it's, it's been a really beautiful story to be a part of that is amazing.

And we. Just, we love stories like that around here. And I've, I've heard you share your story before, and I'm just so inspired by you. I think I've had, um, I am full of similar moments in my own life where I've chosen to go scared and it's so fun to be able to look back, um, Even in this podcasting journey, I've been doing this gig long enough to be able to look back to even I was doing that this week, even think like, where were we a year ago in this, see all the doors that have opened.

And, um, and if I wouldn't. I've been brave enough to just like record the first, like, Hey, I want to encourage women who are chasing after their calling. Like let's, let's go, let's do this. Um, it wouldn't have turned into what we have today and it's just. Oh, I just love stories like this. It's so much fun.

So one of the pieces that you sort of nodded to a little bit, but I want to talk about it a little bit more is letting go of shame in this whole process of going scared. How can we do this better? I want you to encourage them today that are maybe in that pit of trying to climb out of shame. Um, About a decision or moving forward, whatever that looks like for them.

How do you want to encourage them in that? Yes. So I know this is a faith-based audience and I am a Christian. And so for me, I am so grounded in the beginning story where God initiated heaven and he made creation. And then he's. Oh, my gosh, we're missing something. I'm going to create man and woman in my image.

And so from the beginning, God wanted to bring human flourishing to the world through people. And he placed us in this garden and said, I want you to use your creativity. I want you to be my architect. I want you to take what isn't and, and make something new. And so that's really I, that entrepreneurial spirit that I see God as this entrepreneur and, you know, we began to, um, we began to name the animals and cultivate, and then ultimately we chose this to believe this lie, that there's more that you know, that God wasn't enough that, and, um, what happened is.

Immediately shame and or the story. And we went and hid. That's the first thing we went in the head and then we began our own self-reliance. We began to sew our own clothes, but in that story for me, the most powerful piece, and I was talking to this about my daughter last night is God comes to find us.

And the first story, the first question that God asks of all of humanity, he comes walking through the garden and he says, where are you? Yeah. Where are you? Because God wants to be with us. God wants to partner with us. And he comes through, you know, I imagine this thorny, you know, dense. For us, we're, we're, we're hidden, we're trying our best to hide, but we can't out hide God.

And he comes and says, where are you? I want to be with you. And that is when we can understand that God is a God that is coming, who is coming to find us. And yeah. Then when we can share our stories, because shame loves isolation, shame loves to hide. And so that, that really is true. When we share our stories.

It's, it's science, it's the neuro neurobiology of the brain and we can share a story. And then when it's met in that place of someone that's safe and saying, I'm not leaving the room. Yeah, whatever your story is, I'm not leaving the room. That actually is healing. And so, you know, you just said, well, what I was embarrassed, cause I'm like, Oh my gosh, I hope this isn't on video because I'm all sweaty.

And I just came from a walk around the Lake with a friend and, you know, That we were sharing our stories. We're sharing our stories from the week. And so all of this sharing and, um, that gives us opportunity to do this rewriting of our stories, see where we've placed, shame and, um, just wrong identities on our stories.

And we can begin to rewrite those as we share them. And as we are received or received by God, we're received by others. And that truly. Does have unsticking power. And so that's showed up for me as an entrepreneur, you know, as I began this company and, you know, it came from very humble beginnings. We now have, you know, 50 employees in our Austin office and thousands of.

Entrepreneurs who we call Noonday collection ambassadors that are around the country that are also creating opportunity for artists and partners as well. So, you know, economic opportunity for their own families, but I hid so much of my story. And so I think if you can identify the parts of your story that you're hiding.

So I hid that my scrappy beginnings, you know, I had, um, my body a lot because this is a fashion, we're a fashion brand we've been featured in Bogue L allure. You know, women's wear daily. I mean, You know, I used to think, Oh my gosh, I got to like put the right angle on myself, BS, because if you're curvy, you can't be in fashion.

All of these places. I think when we're hiding, that is when you are, you need to kind of become curious about that. Like maybe shame is hiding in that part of my story. And then when you can just be able to just own your real story and then share that, then you that's what releases content. Evidence and, and that's what people want.

Anyway, people connect with authenticity. That's the thing. We hide these parts of our story. Then we feel disconnected from others. And what we most want is connection, but it's a self perpetuating thing, unless we can be that one to go first and to be vulnerable and to share. Yeah, I agree. And it's in those moments where we're really, we're really able to walk more fully in freedom.

Right. I just, I just read an advanced copy. We're going to have her on the show, but just Conley's new book breaking free from body shame. Holy cow. I was so encouraged. Just everything that you, everything we just talked about, um, is modeled so well in that book as well. Just talking about. How these places of shame, just specific to our bodies.

Since we talked about that a little bit can keep us so in bondage and other areas of our lives, when we're not walking in freedom. And I was so encouraged by a lot of what she had to say about, um, how our bodies are not projects and our bodies aren't trophies and how, when we free ourselves of those places of shame, where.

Uh, for a lot of us that may have started in those teenage years. Right. So we've lived in that for a long time when this story long time. Yeah. And so goodness, that is such a, a powerful area to just take back and really impact so many other areas of our lives. So I love that these are homes. These are, yeah, that's right.

That's right. Yeah. And I think one of the terms she used that I loved was like, It is the tint of flesh in which the Holy spirit resides in us. This side of eternity. When we see it through, it's a temple, it's a tent, it's a temple. Yeah. I'm so proud of her for writing that. We've talked about that for a years.

And so I'm just so happy that she put it all into words it's just needed. It is, it is. I love it. Okay. So another piece that I love that you talk about in the book is building a culture of collaboration. And I'd love to talk about that a little bit, a little bit about how, how, how have you done this at noon day, and then for our friends who are leading something who are listening today, how would you want to encourage those listening in their own businesses to build this type of culture?

you know, we truly are better together and that's such a cliche phrase, but I've just seen it over and over again. So even from the beginning, I had been hustling and doing trunk shows all over Texas and knew the power of me being able to multiply myself. So even from the beginning, realizing, and in fact, This is, this is the coolest thing my daughter is at this high school.

She's a freshman and one of her teachers just became a Noonday collection ambassador, and yes, and she, her coach in our company, her, her name's Alison. And so unbeknownst to me, it had nothing to do with me. This teacher of hers reached out to me, DND to me was like, I just became a Noonday collection ambassador through this other woman, Alison, and that's so powerful.

Well, then I get a message from Alison today who said, Hey, Brittany is doing a trunk show with all the teachers at your daughter's school. And she did it on Monday and she showed the whole story videos. So I just wanted you to know that a lot of people now know like the full story of noon day and that Emily is your daughter.

Cause I kind of stay on the download a little bit. Um, in my kids' schools just kind of have done that, but I was like, thinking about how powerful that is, that it wasn't about me coming in and sharing the story, but it was this another person that I empowered basically in order to, to be a steward of this story, that it's not my story.

And I, so I think we have to really hold our stories with open hands and, you know, so many people. Well in this, you know, direct sales model, like how could you give your brand away? How could you put your brand in other people where they might mess up, they might mess up the story and they might like make their own marketing materials that aren't pretty or whatever.

And I'm like, man, I would rather empower someone it so that it multiplies because if we hadn't had multiplied in grown, you know, we wouldn't have been able to create the thousands of jobs that we've created. And I mean, last night I was on the phone with. You know, one of our partners in an Eastern Asia, and she said, Jessica, thanks to Nene date orders.

We just got a woman out of a brothel. He's been there for 32 years, 32 years last week. Yes, it is. This matters. This stuff matters so much. And so this whole idea of collaboration, it's all about multiplying power, you know, and it just, um, this idea that real leadership is leading. Leaving some of your power and cultivated and, and giving power away and creating that opportunity for other people.

And so from the beginning, our business model immediately, we had this ambassador model where it was like, okay, I'm going to give this to you. Go make what you can have it. Sure. Run with new day and Houston go for it really soon after that realized I am not in Kansas anymore. I need a partner. Yeah. And so I thought, okay, I'm going to pay me.

I'm going to raise money. Maybe some, you know, I'll have some angel investor come along and I can hire someone. But through this process of realizing this was going to be a business, it's no longer just a fundraiser. This is not just me having a woman over to my house. This has legs. So I started meeting with different people.

One of the people I met with was Travis Wilson. And he. Became my business partner, 50 50 partner. Um, you know, so many people at the time were like, that's crazy. You can't have, you know, equal partnership. Um, you need to remain the main decision maker. Um, but I just saw that we could be greater together, you know, than, than apart.

And he. MBA from Wharton had done some work at Amazon just had a really robust business backgrounds. So even that partnership of coming together is the power of collaboration, the power of going together. And then even in our ambassador culture, just teaching women, how we can cheer one another on. You know, what does it look like that her success truly does not diminish my success.

And that's becoming aware of these scarcity mentalities that we have, or we start kind of thinking there's just this little tiny pie and that's actually not the way God made the world. God made the world is this open system as this, you know, untapped potential in order to create possibility and meaning with him.

And so that's just looked like. It's looked like a lot of things. I think, you know, just creating that culture has meant just really being a culture that cheers one another on that lifts other women up that sees their success and that names. Um, and then we also name and say, Hey, that might not feel good.

You're probably comparing yourself right now, naming that, naming that like you might have hustled really hard and you didn't end up in the top 20. We see you too. Yep. And we want you to clap for the top 20. Because that's the way you're not going to feel, sorry for yourself for not making it. And it's a discipline.

It's a practice. This doesn't come naturally to us. But again, it is it's, it's getting rid of that comparison and walking in our own story, you know, One of my favorite stories that I share in the book is I'm running into this ma the mom of the year of my kid's school at Starbucks. Oh yeah. And I will, I was, I was on my way to a meeting and I thought, Oh my gosh, I, I even blew my hair dry today and I have time to stop at Starbucks before I get to the office.

And so I walk in feeling all on top of the world and then I see. The mom, like the mom that is always at the kid's school, drop-off pickup organizes, the field trips, brings the cupcakes, you name it. And that shame crept in that shame of like, when's the last time you were up at your kid's school, you're probably going to screw your kids up.

Because you're not even picking him up today. The nanny is, you know, like those are the stories that shame that shame. So I just remember walking into Starbucks, feeling like a million bucks and then immediately feeling less than you're not enough. And I looked at this mom and I decided. I'm going to go walk up to her and I'm going to say hello.

So I walk up to her and I said, Hey, Hey Christina and Jessica, Honegger our kids go to the same school. She said, Jessica, Oh my gosh, it's wait you a named day. Don't you? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I don't know how you do it all. Normally what I would hear is you must be dropping a lot of balls at home. And instead I looked her in the eyes and I said, I am able to do what I do because of you.

Mm, that's so good. Yeah. You drove my kids field trip last week. Yep. You showed up in my kid's class with the cupcakes for teacher appreciation. Yep. And I just want to thank you. Yeah. And it was this. Moment. I got choked up. I had to turn around and run out. So just one thing, I'm some crazy lady, but you know, that was that moment of, of deciding I'm not going to give energy to this year nine nap and you better, you know, you do, you need to bring the cupcakes next week and you know, then that can lead to this, like, False hustling and then we're exhausted.

And instead I was able to just stand there and say, I'm I'm yes, I work. And I'm running this company and you are doing big things too. And you know, what's crazy is she came to my book, launch party and I shared this story. I read it out loud. At my book launch party. And as it turns out, it was the day it was the first day of school.

She was in a shame spiral because she was feeling like my kids are going back to school. What am I going to do with my day? You know, that feeling of like, you're dropping your kids off for the first time. And you're like, Oh my gosh, I got three hours to kill. And like, I'm done with the laundry. I know what I'm cooking for dinner tonight.

I've met my friend for coffee, like, you know, and you can feel like purposeless. And so she was in that shame spiral and just me sharing that story, interrupted that for her, you know? And so it's just, we've got to stop diminishing one another stories. And, and we do that when we, when we. Stand in our own, you know, and see, this is a story God's given me.

And when we work together and say, you know, you know what, you're going to be more present at my kid's school. Thank you. I mean, I'm doing that now up to this day, I've got this small. My kids are at a different school now and I mean, the rides she has given to my kids, um, cause you know, three o'clock, I've got meetings a lot of times at that time, I'm not in, we're kind of beyond nannies.

Stage, I've got a 15 year old with a driver's permit. So we're almost, you know, it's this awkward stage that you get to when your kids are teens. And you're like, Yeah. Anyway, the nanny thing was not working anymore. We had one in the fall and they were like, mom, this is weird. They just need rides places, you know?

Yeah. They're just collaborating then with this other mom, who's more than happy to, to help me out. And it's just, we're better together, you know? And when we stay isolated in our own stories of shame, then we never get to experience the joy of collaboration. Yeah. Okay. This is so fun and such a God thing that we're having this conversation this week, because I feel like I'm at this almost like precipice moment of a lot of collaboration has happened and I'm seeing the fruit of that.

And this week, even I've had several opportunities where I've just looked back and been like, okay, Man God, you were so good. Like last year with the podcast, um, and our community, it patriotic, all of it. I brought on college interns for the first time and had them walk alongside me and help me with communications and graphic design and all the things that.

I can do and love to do, but I don't have to do right. We're getting to that place where it's like, what can only Rebecca do and what can Rebecca pass off to other people? And, gosh, they're brilliant. They're so brilliant. And the things that we've been able to accomplish because they were on my team have just been so fruitful and so sweet and.

I'll share this because by the time this airs, who knows where this will be, and I don't believe in time, pretty bows on a lot of things in life, because a lot of things in life don't have pretty bows tight on them. But I signed with my literary agent last summer. And two days ago we pitched my book, which feels insane, crazy.

And as I looked at the whole project and just how far it's come over the last few months, With her. I mean, it's, it's such a better, more me and more God and more what it's supposed to be book than it was when I pitched it to her when I was trying to find an agent. Right. And so absolutely so many of these moments this week where I've been like, God, you are so faithful to put people in my path.

And gosh, I cannot do this by myself. I'm just better. My ministry is so much richer when I bring other people alongside me. And so that's just another Testament to this whole concept. It's so important. So I love that you share about it. That's everything it is. It is so, okay. Before we head on over to Patrion, I just want to hear.

Like in this phase of life in this season, which is crazy nuts, bananas. What does imperfect courage look like for you right now? Like what does that look like in Jessica's life right now? You know, ironically for me it's meant. Mothering in a way that I haven't before. What I mean by that is I for the first 10 years of new day.

And I have, I have always heard, I heard this from older moms in my life and older cousins. And they always said like, Hey, all kids need when they're little is just like someone to like, let them love on them, get them food, play with them. But. When middle school and adolescents, like that's when you're going to want to be around more.

And of course that made no sense to me at the time. And now I'm seeing it. Bear. Fourth where I'm like, Oh my gosh, I don't know when the conversation is going to happen. I don't know when she's going to be in the right mood for me to kind of be able to like, Oh, okay, we're having a good week said this feels like a Tinder place where I can maybe in her end with like a little more intense discipleship than I normally would.

You know? And so I I'm saying, um, I kind of, you know, I think that it takes a lot of courage to start something. I think it takes just as much courage to stop something good. So I, I just exited a business group that I'd been a part of for the last couple of years, with just very high level entrepreneurs that have been on the cover of Forbes, you know, just a really dynamic group of people that felt very like challenging and exclusive and good for me to be a part of and just kind of going in a, what.

It's it meets after school during a kids game. And like, whereas before I missed games all the time, I was traveling in Africa, but I'm like, I don't care about my fourth graders game, you know, but like I do care about my sophomore volleyball game, you know? And so I think I'm just, you know, in some ways my story at the beginning of entrepreneurship was so much about like, Knowing that, I mean, the nannies that I had, where my kids are in elementary school are, are like formative in my children's lives, like formative in their discipleship.

They still continue to pour into my children. It's amazing. Um, but now I'm almost coming back to this place of like, I got a mom. Yeah. And I'm kind of standing in that place. So like standing in front of this business group and saying, guys, I need, I'm going to go to my daughter's volleyball game. And so I'm realizing this is this isn't going to work.

So it's, I think there there's this element of parenting right now. That's, that's taking courage for me. And I think just parenting teenagers is quite courageous. I can only imagine. My hats off to you, girlfriend. I didn't know yet. And I could only, I can only imagine, especially right now in this time and space we are in the way it's been a lot.

It's been a very intense parenting season. It really, really has navigating all of this with them and just, yeah. Yeah. That's where I'm at. Yeah. That's so brave. I love that. I love that you shared about that. So. I am so excited to hop on over to our Patrion page to get to know you a little bit better. So for listeners who are subscribed over there, make sure you listen to our bonus conversation with Jessica.

And I just want to say the name of her book one more time. It's called imperfect courage. So make sure you go check it out and just for this part of the conversation, I just want to thank you so much for being with me. This has been so fun. It's been awesome. Thanks for having me.