Episode 131. Win at Work and Succeed at Life with Megan Hyatt Miller

Unedited Transcript

Megan. I am so grateful to have you today. Thank you for being with me, Rebecca. Thank you for having me. I am so excited to be on with you today. This is fun. I was telling you before we hit record, I'm an OJI long time lead to win sinner and just fans of the Hyatt family. So it's just really fun to get to chat with you today.

And I'm so excited about this new book. Thank you. Well, it's fun for me to get to talk to you and appreciate just your support and encouragement over the years. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I am excited to kind of hear. The heart behind this message. So the book is called win at work and succeed at life. And I cannot think of a title that is more Megan and Michael, right?

Like, so tell me kind of the story behind this. Well, you know, my dad and I, uh, have really. Come to believe that this is the core message of our business over the last several years. It's something that is probably really the most distinctive about what we do. And more importantly, how we do it. So as we're coaching, um, business leaders and entrepreneurs and executives, uh, this idea of winning at work and succeeding at life, something that we call the double win is really the kind of stuff.

Central, um, manifesto of our work. And the reason for that is it's kind of different between my dad and I, we have, we have different ways that we came to this as being important to us. And I'll tell you a little bit about that in a second, but you know, what we see in culture are really two options. When we think about how to, um, respond to this question of success, what does it mean?

How am I going to. Pursue it or not. One is called the hustle fallacy. And that's what we see kind of an influencer culture or celebrity culture, a celebrity entrepreneur culture, especially where we're told that in order to get ahead, in order to quote unquote succeed, we really have to burn the candle at both ends that we have to make major sacrifices and just, just, you know, double down and hustle at least for a while to get our business off the ground or to get to the next level in our career or our organization.

And the problem of course, with that is that very often that that kind of temporary season of hustle has a way of becoming permanent. And the cost of that is huge in terms of our health, physical wellbeing, our most important relationships, perhaps with our spouse or children, um, family members, friends, uh, and just our wellbeing and our impact in the world in general.

And from our perspective, we don't like that option. You know, we think that stinks and it's yeah. Yeah, thank you. I'm so glad. So then, you know, but the other option that gets presented to us is something we call the ambition break. And for those of us who look at that option, people like Elon Musk or others and say, I don't think I want to make that choice because I know I'm going to look back with regret.

We, we say to ourselves, well guess I'm going to have. To kind of pump the brakes on my ambition. I'm not going to be able to reach my full professional potential, my potential for impact in the world. I guess that's okay though, because at least I won't have all these regrets, you know, in my personal life, of course, the downside is then you have all these regrets professionally in terms of, you know, perhaps your calling and things like that.

And for us, both of those options, we feel extinct. And the one that we really liked better is what we consider a third way, which is this idea of the double win that you really can win at work. And. Succeed at life, but it takes some intention and thought and kind of a new way of thinking. Um, in order to do that, I love that so much.

And I'm just going to plug this, which he didn't ask me to. I have been using the full focus planner for a year now. I just want to say the structure of that has helped me. Just take back so much of my time and make the most of my time. Uh, you know, personally for me, I work out of our house. My husband is a pastor, so we're both like going 90 miles a minute, 24 seven, but having more structure to my time at home and getting done what I need to get done during the day, and really focusing on my marriage and spending quality time together, especially when we were locked down in our house.

Um, I needed that structure of what I'm using now in the planner to kind of help me do that. And it's helped me when, in my life a lot more. So I just want to say that, that I thank you for that. Yeah. I'm just grateful for y'all because I really do think that the resources that you create and the conversations that you have are really steering us in this direction, which I really appreciate.

I am definitely. And I don't know about you, Megan. I am bent towards. It being really easy for me to step into the hustle culture mentality. It's very easy to kind of buy into that. Um, if I were to say it, say personality wise, you know, in words that would be commonly understood. I am definitely an achiever.

And so having that structure of, okay, here's, here's, you know what I have to accomplish today, but like, I can visibly see all of that checked off at the end of the day. And that frees me to just enjoy my evening or, you know, whatever that looks like. It's just been helpful to me. I agree with that. I think, um, it's important to say for people that are achievers like us, cause I'm exactly the same way.

This, this conversation of the double win winning at work and succeeding at life is not. Kind of some warm and fuzzy, uh, work-life balance, you know, conversation. Although we certainly believe in work-life balance and that's one of the things we talk a fair amount in the book about. However, I want people to hear me say that this is a performance strategy that what we're really talking about is how can we perform at such a high level in our businesses, our organizations, our places of work.

And in the rest of our lives so that we are accomplishing all the things that really matter doesn't mean we're doing it all. You know, there's certainly not enough time to do it all. That is a myth. Absolutely. But there is enough time to do all the things that matter most to you. And that's one of the things we get deep into in the book is helping you understand what does that look like for you so that you can focus on those things where you're getting results and leverage, you know, or at home on the things that really make an impact with your family perhaps, or.

Or, um, you know, with your body or whatever. And to me, that's an important point because I think it's easy for achievers to kind of dismiss this message as just being kind of soft and like yeah, yeah. I'll get to that later, you know, so, yeah. That's so good. Okay. So one of the things that you say is great leaders are driven to win.

So there's sort of this inherent, you know, being driven to win, however, yeah. We've talked about this a little bit. Sometimes winning has came at a great cost of, you know, our health, our relationships, et cetera. So we know that it doesn't have to be this way and we've, we can shout that from the rooftops, but what would you want to share practically with people on, like, how do we flip that script and that narrative that's hardwired in us?

Well, I think it is a. A narrative. I mean, we call it the cult of overwork and the book for a reason because we really think it is, it almost feels like it has like a religious quality to it, that there are beliefs that are associated with that that really need to be dispelled and replaced with beliefs that support what we want in our life, which is that double win.

And so there are just a few principles and practices that I think are helpful. We talk about these in depth in the book, but if you don't mind, I'll just share those real quick. And I think that'd be helpful for those who are listening. So the first one. One is, is that work is only one of many ways that we orient our life.

You know, I think in this cult of over work, it's like work as the primary orientation of life. And we're saying, no, there are 10 domains of a human life that needs to be addressed. And the vocational or work component of that is only one we need to address the other. So what that looks like practically is that we have to define.

What does the double win mean to me? What are, um, we can get into this more if you'd like to, but what are my non-negotiables in the areas of self care, in the areas of my relational priorities and in the, in my professional results. And they're in that order for a reason, um, you know, what are, what does that double win look like for me?

And that's gonna look different for you Rebecca than it might look for me than it might look for someone else on our team. You know, it gets to look like whatever. Whatever works for you is fine, but we want you to be intentional about it. Um, I think the other thing is that constraints, another principle for the book is that constraints, foster productivity, creativity, and freedom.

And this is counterintuitive because we usually think. If I put constraints in place, like I'm not gonna be able to get done what I need to get done. It's going to be too difficult. There's not enough time, all of that. But when we, as a practice constrain our work day and decide, I'm going to start at this time, I'm going to end at this time.

This is how I'm going to handle evenings and weekends. This is how I'm going to handle my vacation or PTO time. Um, what happens is we get way more creative. It's like if you've ever thought about. What you get done the Friday before you leave on vacation? Because I'm like, Oh my gosh. It's like, we get five days worth of work done in one day.

Cause we're very clear on what's going to have the most impact and what matters most. And we just like make it happen. Right? Same is true. We apply these constraints in, uh, our Workday. I think the other thing that people have to wrap their head around is that work-life balance is truly possible. Um, and.

That is again, kind of going against that cult of overwork myth that it's impossible. And in order to do that, we have to schedule what matters. So we figure out these non-negotiables in those three areas of self care, relational priorities and professional results. And then we have to literally get that stuff on our calendar.

You know, for me as a mom of five kids running a significant business, um, this is. The only way it works for me is like I live or die by the calendar, you know? And, uh, it doesn't mean every moment of my life is hyper scheduled, but it does mean that I think of it. Like I've got to put those big rocks, a Stephen Covey used to say in my schedule or all the little pebbles will fill up all the time and there won't be any time left for the stuff that matters most.

Um, And two final, uh, principles here for the book are there's incredible power in non achievement and Rebecca, you know what you're talking about being an achiever and, Oh my gosh, it's so counterintuitive for those of us who are achievers to think that there's value in things like hobbies or intentional rejuvenation.

But what we say is that if you can keep a hobby that truly delights you, not only is that rejuvenating for you, but it will fuel your professional performance. Like nothing else. If you think about it for a second, where do you get. The best ideas that you have, like for your, for your business or, you know, on a run, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a runner and I, a hundred percent, that's where those happen for me. It's not when you're like at your desk, right? Those that's where the ideas come from. Yeah. Never, never. And so having those hobbies is so valuable because it creates that space for us to. Have made connections, like kind of, you know, free association and all of that, plus it just rejuvenates our brains.

So we're not too depleted to innovate and be creative. And then of course the final thing is that rest is the foundation of meaningful, productive work. And that we've got to start the day with a good night's sleep. And that sounds so basic, but for so many of us coming out of 2020, Feeling depleted feeling like, you know, your self care is just a total wreck.

The place to start is really sleep because if we're tired, we can't do anything. You know? I mean, we, all those of us who've had babies know, Oh my gosh, those first six to 12 weeks when you're not sleeping. I mean, you just feel like a zombie and a lot of us are walking around in our lives, kind of in that perpetual state and wondering, you know, why do I feel so drained?

Why do I feel discouraged? Why do I feel like. You know, I can't get traction and sleep is really a performance strategy and we are like huge advocates of it. So anyway, those are really the kind of big tenants of this idea of the double win. Okay. This is so good. I want to go back to the whole hobby thing for a second.

This is been on my mind so much lately. I recently listened to any of Down's new book called that sounds fun. And one of the pieces of it is talking about how. We shouldn't be afraid to be an amateur. Yes. Yes. That was so powerful to me as we think of how many times do we, I don't know, try something new, but we feel like, and I think social media has just totally messed everything about this approach.

We try something, I feel like, Oh, I have to be an expert at it. I know all the things right now. And I mean, there's a few examples of that. Even in my life during quarantine, I tried making clay jewelry. I was terrible at it, but it was so fun to make Palmer clay jewelry and make these beautiful earrings.

And it was fun. My husband and I just both love crafting. We love building things. And I think for us, it goes back to this principle that I've, I don't know who originally said it, and I wish I did. I need to figure that out, but just this idea of if you work with your mind, right? Like we're both administry, he's a lead pastor.

I'm a content creator. That it's helpful to Sabbath with your hands. Oh, if you work with your wise, it's helpful to Sabbath with your mind. And so that has really put color to me of like, okay, maybe that's why. Creating and building something feels freeing to me, or it feels relaxing to me or being outdoors or reading fiction because all I do all day is read nonfiction to prepare for podcasts and learn and to grow and things like that.

And so anyway, that has been huge for us in the last year, especially when we've been so isolated in our, in our house being kind of forced to figure out what. What does feel like a disconnect or just a relaxing thing that rejuvenates us. And so I love that. Yeah. I think that's huge. And I think this is one of those things we almost have to retrain ourselves to do as adults, especially as achievers.

It's funny, it's like the more competent or the more successful you become, the harder it is to do what you said, which is to be a beginner. I'm just about to start taking piano lessons for the first time in, you know, 30 something years. And. I am excited about it, but I also feel in myself, the resistance I'm going to be terrible at the beginning.

You know, I'm going to be like a kid again and yet how important of a, uh, kind of skill or, you know, to use sort of like psychological language, frustration tolerance to develop. For my work to be able to be again, a beginner, because there are plenty of things in our business that I'm going to need to be a beginner at for our future, you know?

And so it's kind of training for that also had kind of a similar experience. I love fishing. I love the water. Um, and my dad is a really avid fly fisherman. He's been doing it for a long time. Yeah. Like I'd never fly fished before until a couple years ago. And he and I went together and got a guy and all of that.

But I was like, Oh my gosh, this is hard. Like, this is not, yeah. This isn't like, just throw the little bobber over the dock. Like I do at our Lake, you know, doc, this is like for real, get in there and that the whole skill and it's choreographed and the whole thing, and I was terrible at it. And. It was so rewarding because of that.

And what I found is that when I fly fish or really efficient general, but especially when it's something that requires something of me, I am so much more creative. I have all kinds of ideas about our business. When I come back, I feel refreshed for my family, all of that. And it's, it's just easy to dismiss how important this is or to say, well, I'll do that when I'm an empty nester or I'll do that once, you know, the ministry is at a certain place and.

We need it now, you know, we don't need a ton of it. We don't need like hours every week, but we need like 15, 30 minutes an hour. Maybe a week is, is life giving. It really is. And before I move on, I'll just say this, another piece of that, that I think is powerful for me is. Finishing something like doing something that I, I can from start to finish CFI product.

I think so much of my time is spent, you know, deepen these projects that we don't see finish line for a long, long time, whether it's in mastery or yeah. Or what we do here with podcasts and other things. And so if there's something that I can take an hour on a Saturday and I can be like, yep, I did this and I can check it off and I can see.

See a finished product that cleaning your closet feels so good to me. Yes, yes. Yes. I love that. So you've mentioned this in passing a little bit, but I'd love to just give you the opportunity to kind of share a little more about it. Another thing piece of the book talks about slowing down and man, that's a struggle for me.

So for the people that struggle, they're like, what does that, what does that look like? Yeah, slowing down is really a challenge. I actually think of it, you know, since we're in a faith-based context, I kind of think of this as a spiritual discipline that actually in many ways, a lot of what we talk about in the book are, you know, could be viewed through that lens of spiritual discipline things like constraining your Workday.

You know, it's an act of faith in many ways, and it's an act of, um, humility. It's an act of trust, all those kinds of things. And I think that those are the same when we try to slow down. I think there are reasons why we don't slow down. Um, some of them are. Kind of good reasons in the sense that, you know, we don't have to feel bad about it.

Like, work is fun for most of us who are achievers. We love our work and it's like, yeah. I mean, that, doesn't, it doesn't feel like work. I have clients tell me all the time when they first start with us, you know? Oh yeah. I don't, I don't need to worry about this because, um, my work for me is fun. I'm like, yeah, but it's, it's not the same thing as what I'm talking about, you know?

And so I think that's one thing. I think the other thing, and I mean, I. Is personally sometimes the reason that I want to go fast, the reason that I want to overwork is because work is easier than home. And it's also, um, that could be for a lot of different reasons for different people. But I think I mentioned earlier, I have five kids.

Um, my first two I married into year and a half later, we adopted two boys from Uganda. And then just two years ago, that was in 2011. So a long time ago, then just two years ago, we adopted a baby girl from Florida who, um, just turned two on Easter. And so we have like kids ages 20 to two and, you know, that's hard.

Like there's really no way to sugarcoat the fact that parenting to me is, um, the most important work I've ever done, the most meaningful work I've ever done. And the absolute hardest. I mean, I, I could like. Run circles around my home self professionally and not be tired compared to like what it takes to raise children and, and we have children with special needs.

So dealing with that is as a whole thing. And that's really a big part of my double wind story, which I'm happy to share more about too. But I think it's helpful just to say out loud. Sometimes it's hard to slow down and be present because we feel anxious without the hard edges of work. Right? Like you can't check things off in your planner about your kids, you know, sitting on the floor or reading 1400 times the same book to my two year old, doesn't get checked off in my planner.

Like that's super important, but that's not. It's not checkoff bubble. You know, that is, um, that is the discipline of being present. And I feel like I'm still learning that. And I'm just constantly aware of that coming up in me, especially when the special needs pieces are hard or we're just in a demanding season of.

You know, we're like launching adults and we've got toddlers and we've got middle-school, we've got all the things, you know, sometimes I'm like, if I could just stay at work two hours longer and right before dinner, that would be way easier than leaving at three o'clock, which is what I do every day. You know?

So anyway, I hope that vulnerability of me sharing my own experience just kinda helps to maybe, I don't know, humanize this conversation a little bit and hopefully take some of the shame out of it, because I think that. There are reasons why we do what we do and when we become conscious of it, without a lot of judgment, we can choose something better, you know, and bring ourselves back over and over again to maybe something better.

Yeah, man, that is so good. And I think so often we want those like tangible wins. Those things are harder in our marriages and in the lives of our children. And we don't have kids yet. I can only speak from sort of a marriage perspective, but I, I can think of times in the past we both would have. I said like my work that I did from eight to five today felt a whole lot easier than this particular day in our marriage, you know, and everybody has their own version of that.

And I think I just want to honor you and celebrate like you being vulnerable to share and start that conversation. Because I think so many times we're quiet about how hard even, even to dedicated followers of Christ. Yep. We're all sinners and we're all imperfect people walk together. Yeah. I know. I was talking to a friend the other day.

Who's caring for her father-in-law who has advanced Alzheimer's just right when she became an empty nester. Like a year later, he moved in with them and now that's, their world is caring for him, which is like caring for a toddler all over again. I know a lot of people, maybe they don't have young kids at home or they don't have kids at all, but they have parents or a family member that they're caring for.

They have a chronic illness or something like that. And like the desire to overwork is, is, uh, is an impulse to escape. And that is while not. Good in the end, right? Like that's ultimately not helpful. It is totally understandable. And it's like, there's so much compassion. Yep. Yeah. I agree, man. I could talk to you all day.

This is so much fun. I am so excited about this new book. I'm going to say the name of it. One more time. Before we hop on over to our Patrion audience, it's called win at work and succeed at life it's available. Wherever books are sold. Right. So people could go grab it. Yeah. Wherever they would like. And what we're going to do now is hop on over to our Patriot audience.

So for people who subscribe over there, the conversation we're about to have is only available there. So make sure you go check it out and we'll get to know Megan A. Little bit better, but I'm just so grateful for you being with me today. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Rebecca.