Episode 132. Let’s Go to the Holy Land with Amanda Hope Haley

Unedited Transcript

Amanda. We are so thrilled to have you today. I'm so excited to get, to have this conversation. Not just view it with my husband. What we shared a little bit before we hit record is we got the opportunity to visit the Holy land, visit Israel before the pandemic hit us about six months before that in 2019.

And it was such an impactful trip for us. I think we both have said countless times that we'll never read our Bibles the same. It just, it was so impactful. And when I heard about your book, I was so excited because. I think the work that you do, and even as I flipped through the book and I looked at pictures of your work, it just gives so much color to Israel, which we talked about before we hit record too, which is really cool.

And I'm just excited to chat with you about our trip, about your work. It's just going to be so much fun. And so to sort of. Kick us off. What I'd love to hear from you is, you know, at what point did God weave, you know, your passion for scripture, your passion for archeology, into what the work that you do now, like tell us about sort of that path to the red hair and archeologists.

Wow. So I, I was lucky to be raised in a Christian tradition that I think really emphasized reading scripture every single day. And I got into the habit of that really early. And it was, I don't know, I was one of those people that it just, it just worked for. And so I fell in love with scripture really, really early.

And then when I went to college, I went to a Presbyterian university and we were required to take, four semesters of religion classes just as. Part of the curriculum. And the first thing that happened when I got into those classes was I was met with a lot of professors who were not themselves believers and it felt like they were hitting me with everything that I had been taught about the Bible that was incorrect.

And I knew I loved scripture and I believe scripture, but there was this time period where it wasn't, it wasn't fitting with everything that I had been told my entire life. And, this was something that I struggled with. And then when I took a biblical archeology class, I think it was the last religion class I took as part of that initial curriculum.

I just, I fell in love with it. And there was something about seeing physical items that were coming out of the ground from, you know, the first century and prior that. It, it, it confirmed to me that what scripture scripture was real and there was something tangible about it that that is out there. And so I just had to come to this place where, the two sort of started to work together again.

And so once I discovered archeology, it's like, it gave me something physical to hold onto that I could study more. And really what ended up happening is I learned more about archeology. It revealed to me. The things I had learned as a child that were tradition, which is not to say that tradition is bad or anything like that.

It certainly has its place, but there's a difference between tradition and scripture. And so archeology is what brings that home for me. it's what brings the Bible to life because when we're over here in the West and we're reading about things from two, 3000 years ago, we're imagining in our minds.

The, the things that are around, not what items may have looked like way back then. And archeology then brings the Bible to life in a way that it was when it was, when it was created versus the way we read it now. And I think that that's one thing that we tend to do, you know, we, we tend to be very ethnocentric and it's, we're reading, you know, oftentimes we'll say at the church.

We can't really read the Bible as modern day Americans without understanding the writers and the events did not occur in modern day America. Right. So we have to, we have to put that in its appropriate context. And so, as, as I was reading through your book, I was just curious if. And, and, and then based on what you just said, can you think of one factor or discovery that just was one of those aha moments that deeply challenged you, that, that deepened your approach to the Bible?

Just maybe, maybe an example that just really stands out in your mind. As far as something that came out of the ground, that sort of thing, or, or something that challenged those traditional views, the tradition in, in as co as contrasted with scripture itself, there's a lot of those. Especially, I think when you're talking about even the new Testament, because the new Testament period, as far as archeology is concerned, we're only talking about, you know, generations worth of artifacts or something that's over there.

And so, so from the first century, one good example is for instance, the, the whole manger, the whole nativity story. And one of the first things that I learned about actually, when I got to grad school, was what houses looked like in the first century, the way cities were set up, the way Bethlehem was set up and, Let's just say in, in, in a city, in like Bethlehem during the first century, it's, it's not the way we are today where, you know, farm animals exist on a farm outside of the city center, you know, in lots of areas in their own little, you know, With that buildings and all that.

Instead the animals basically lived with the people and the way the homes were set up inside the cities where the downstairs level is where the animals stayed. And that was where the cooking was set up. I mean, we there's archeological evidence of two boons and cooking utensils. And even now there are microbiologists who can get in there and like tell you exactly what had been eaten by the people and what was coach there.

And then on the second level is where people lived. It's where they ate. It's where they, you know, weaved and that sort of thing. So you even look at Jesus later on in his life. He has, he has the. The last supper in an upper room. Archeologically that is correct. That's where like the tables and stuff are set up.

And then on the roof time, especially in the summer, that's where a lot of the sleeping would occur. Well, when you understand the way cities were organized and the animals were like right there with the people, then that changes the way you view the nativity. Because I grew up with this. Awesome little nativity set that is wooden and it has Spanish Moss on top.

And it has this distinctive, like metal slash plastic smell that I can even called mine right now. And you know, it's all and you lay it on snow, right? Like we have this image of Jesus being born. Out on a farm somewhere because he was forced out of the city. Well, what the archeology tells us and not just their archeology, but also understanding history and the way culture worked for first century Jews is they went into Bethlehem with everybody else who was a member of the tribe of Judah to, to fill out the census.

And so there was a flood of people in, and while. Ins, they certainly would have called them ins back in the day, while those may have been a thing. What was more likely was as people were coming in, they were staying in the lower room or they were staying, I'm sorry. They were staying in the upper rooms of these houses.

Everyone who lived there would have been opening up their place for friends and family members to come in. So understanding that background. And knowing that the word that gets translated in the new Testament in can also mean the upstairs basically. So are some of our Bibles fail us here too. Some of our translations Bayless here too, but what really happened probably was they go into Bethlehem and they're going to homes.

We're looking for places to stay and the places where the human slept are full. So if someone says, sorry, there's no room for you up here, you're going to have to stay down here with the animals. And that's what happened is they went in there and he was born in a manger, which would not have been, would, it would have been made of stone because it was basically stone feeding trough.

And so instead of. You know, me as a child growing up thinking, you know, Mary was not allowed to go into a home because she was pregnant out of wedlock. I mean, having all these negative associations with the people who turned her away instead, it was just, it was just a happenstance of culture that put them in a lower room.

It wasn't because people were being mean to them. It was just a result of the circumstances. In fact, it could be argued the other way that the people in that home. Bound space for them, not the most comfortable, not probably didn't smell the best, but it also would have been the warmest place in the house, you know, because the animals were there.

And so the way we interpret Jesus's birth, wow. When you know the archeology from the area, it's very, very different from what 2000 years of, of culture has, has given us in, in our, in our, in our stories. I actually, that's interesting. I actually did a Bible study one time that I had entitled quick giving the innkeeper grief.

And I said, I said, not only should you quit giving him grief. He quote, unquote, probably wasn't even an innkeeper. We don't know anything about this. And, and that just really that, that really bothered. Some of the people in the Bible study because they were saying, Oh no, no, the innkeeper turned them away.

And I said, no, no, you, you, you had like, there's a guy at a front desk that saying, sorry, no vacancy. That's not the image at all. That's right. And it's, and it's a hard thing. Anytime, something like that comes out where you're trying to. Re-explained scripture or just see scripture apart from all those traditions.

And I mean, it's a hard thing. I tell the story. I've told the story many times before, when I found out that Mary Magdalen wasn't a prostitute and this is an archeology base, but I mean, it fits, it fits in with our traditions and our interpretation. I scripture. I, I mean, I grew up in church. I was there every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, you know, whenever it was open, I was there.

I knew my Bible stories and I had a religion degree and I was in graduate school. learning about Mary Magdalen when, you know, I. Made the comments to the class will, you know, something about her being a prostitute. And I was laughed at, and I was informed at the ripe age of 22. I think that no, what you have believed in pictured and imagined your entire life is wrong.

And that's a hard thing because. First off, it makes you question everything you've ever known about the Bible. And it makes you question, the people who have taught you, and it requires a lot of work and a lot of introspection and you need to clean onto your faith and go back to the Bible. And I think not be afraid to dive back in.

I tell people with, with things like, you know, w w when I pull, when I tell them that their, their manger scenes are wrong, it's like, but. But that's okay. Like open your Bible and press into that and figure out what's actually there and you're going to have an even deeper faith. And that doesn't mean that you have to throw out the traditions either.

Not all traditions have to come directly out of scripture. I mean, they're in tradition, you're connecting with 2000 years of Christianity. We just need to understand the difference between what God actually said and what we've layered on top of it. Yeah. That's so good. It's funny that you picked Bethlehem to talk about, because I can remember that being one of the places that I know for me.

And I think for you to Dustin, I just remember leaving Bethlehem and thinking nothing about this is anything that I've pictured for 28 years. I mean, I remember getting out of the bus and I don't know my whole, all I've, I've pictured this, this almost Grecian looking hillside. And it was nothing that I had that I had imagined.

And even the whole, the whole feeding trough versus manger thing. I that's not what any of us were taught in vacation Bible school. Right. And so there were so many of those moments for us, throughout the trip that just totally reshifted, you know, Those pictures that we saw maybe in a, in a really awesome children's Bible it's sometime in the past, in our lives.

Right. And so. You know, we both grew up in Tennessee, right? So in the center of the, sort of this Western mindset that we've mentioned a few times, and I would love to hear a little bit about, and you Chronicle this in the books, but just your first experience. Traveling to Israel. I just want to know, you know, what changed for you?

How did God use maybe that specific trip, to sort of shed some of that mindset and really begin to read God's word more clearly. I know a lot of our listeners will be listening today, having not. Had this experience that we're talking about, but maybe there are people who would love to visit Israel one day.

Yeah. How would you want to encourage them with even your own story of maybe the first time that you had that experience? Hmm. Well, I, I would preface my story by saying that I was first expecting to go to Israel in 2001. that's I had a scholarship to go dig at that point and, all much like last year with COVID, all of archeology ended up getting canceled that summer, because we were in the middle or they were in the middle of it.

What's called the second Intifada. So that was the time if you're, I turned 40 here in a couple of weeks. So if you're around my age, maybe you'll remember all over the headlines in the U S we kept hearing about a lot of bus bombings and just general terrorism going on in Israel at the time. And so that's often called the second Intifada, so I didn't get to go in 2001.

I did go for the first time in 2004. And when I got over there, that, that was in my mind, that was in my memory. And even before I went, I was, I was newly married. In fact, I had my, I celebrated my first anniversary in Israel. Well, my husband was still in Boston. I promised him that I would not go to Jerusalem.

The first time that I went to Israel because he and my family and everyone around us had this impression of Israel as just being a worsen basically. Well, so I got over there and the first time I was there, I was working in Ashkelon and I sat down with an Israeli, a young Israeli woman who she had just gotten out of the Israeli military because women are required to serve at least one year after they graduate from school in the military.

And we were talking about that and I was saying to her, like, I just, I was just asking her about it. Like, what's it like to be in the military? I was like that, that kind of scares me. I, you know, just tell me about it. And she's like, well, first off, it's just such a part of our culture that everyone goes in, that, you know, it's just it, I mean, everybody goes together.

It's almost like an extra year of school tied in on top of everything, but she, she. She told me a lot about what life is like there now. And she said, I don't understand as an Israeli, why everyone thinks this is such a dangerous, terrible place, because we turn on the news during the day and the bad things that happen obviously are on the news, but so much good happens every every day.

Those are just parts of, of what is happening here. And, you know, I would tell Americans, you know, come here, you're only hearing the bad things. And so this. Anyway. So she told me that then, and I think she's absolutely right. That's still, that's still kind of how we think of the middle East as being well, it real, let's just say Israel as being war.

War torn. But when you go over there, especially now, it is, there's definitely a stronger military presence than you would expect, you know, here in the U S but you don't encounter. I mean, it's just as a modern city. I mean, and there's, there's malls everywhere and people going to movie theaters and, and going out to dinner and walking around and it's, it's just normal life.

And if you didn't know that you were in say Tel Aviv, Then, you know, you wouldn't distinguish it from many other cities here in the U S and so, I mean, I just encourage people to, to, to get there and, and just go and enjoy and learn what the people are like there. And that's interesting that you say that because when, when we went, we were in Jerusalem and for part of our trip, And there was one evening.

We were all sitting around at dinner and we had a group of about 40 people. And we were sitting in the dining area in the hotel and someone said, well, what's the plan after, after dinner. And some people were saying, well, we're, we're going to go rest in our rooms or we're going to go here. And most of us spent a few hours up on the rooftop in the evening.

Just sort of debriefing from the day. And so we were all sitting around and I said, Oh, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go walking. And some of them, their eyes got. Really wide. And they said, yes, you are going to walk around in the dark and you're, you're going to walk. Oh, where are you going? I said, I don't know.

I think may wander down to the old city and I heard there's a little mall area. That's got great ice cream. And so I'm going to, I'm going to go, I'm going to go find that. And, I had made, I had made this, this really fast. Relationship friendship that that still goes on today with, an Orthodox Jew on the plane on the way over.

We, we just started talking and then it was, it was just. Just a really quick form friendship. And even, even today, years later, a couple of years later, we're still, we're still messaging almost weekly, just talking and sharing. And, and so, but the idea of, Oh my goodness. You mean you're going to go walking around.

Jerusalem at night. And I said, why, why wouldn't we, I mean, why let's let's go because there are people walking everywhere let's just go out. And some of them refuse to leave the hotel because they were saying, no, no, no, I don't. I don't want to go out there without the guide. I don't want to go out. And, and that was really unfortunate because that was a, that was a high point of the trip.

We just wandered around and found things to eat. And there was a small group of us that just went and, Yeah, it's it's really, I, I never, I never once truly felt. Unsafe. but just that didn't enter into the equation. I mean, it's, it's also a very, very clean city, but I think what you did is so important.

And I have to say, I have never been to Israel, like on a traditional, like. Here's a 10 day tour. I've so I've never had a tour guide that way. I guess I'm kind of an adventurous traveler. Like I'd rather just like rent a car and go, and we're, we're talking about, hopefully my next book will, will be about Egypt and its interactions with the Bible.

And we've been looking at how that's going to work. And the bottom line is in Egypt. You. As a woman, I can not rent a car and just get like, we're going to have to do it toward group that time, but we've always been my husband and I have always been kind of on the ground sort of people. And I think, I think that's important if you can do it.

I mean, safely. And I mean, when you go, when you go to any city, I mean, even here in the us, keep your eyes open, pay attention to what's going on around you and, you know, just be smart, be safe. But, the, what you did gave you a feel for what the city is like outside of what's being presented to you, right?

Cause when you go on a tour group of anything, you're really limited by who scheduled it, how they designed it, what you're being told, whereas you had the opportunity to go out there and experience stuff for yourself. And I would say, especially in places like Jerusalem and other areas in Israel, that.

That is so important because Israel is this one place on earth where ancient history completely co-exists with modern life, the people who were there, there, there is no separation between the two. The area that they're walking in, especially when you get up to like the sea of Galilee and all of that, those people are living and working every moment of every day in the land of Bible.

Right. And that's something we as Westerners don't have access to. And, I've realized by traveling over there, I think that's. Something that, that, that we sorely lack and we have to work really, really hard to overcome, but no matter how many times we go to church or how many days per week, we have small groups, those are all really, really great things.

It's different from walking to work every day. In the land of the Bible and just being in this place where you're constantly surrounded by the history of all of the Christians and Jews who have come before you. And I think it's something we have to work to overcome. And I don't know that really locked down tour groups, are able to help people do that enough.

It, I think it's important to have a little bit of it, adventurous spirit to get out there and meet the people and talk to them and see how. The Bible just infiltrates even their daily lives. Yeah. I'm just sitting here remembering not to toot his horn, like even more, but like there was that moment where we went out at night, but there were even more moments where you would raise your hand and you would say, Hey, are we not like 50 feet from so-and-so gate?

Or, yeah. Like we weren't supposed to go to the Southern step where we didn't, you know, we were there was on the list. Okay. No, it was just going to have you share about that because that was, there was the golden gate. Yeah. It was the golden gate that we weren't supposed to. That was not on the tour. But do you want to talk about the Southern steps?

Well, sure. Okay. I want to hear what happened. Well, well, the, the thing, the thing was for me, If there was I, every day we were there would, at the end of the day, I would say, you know, I could go home today completely and totally blown away satisfied and, and just. Yeah, it goes, I was just thinking what? Just can't get any, it can't, it can't get beyond this.

Right. We're we're, we're, we're where, you know, Elijah faced the prophets of bale. Right. And, and I'm saying, okay, well, this is a favorite, favorite, favorite passage in the old Testament, right. That standoff, that showdown at caramel. And so, I'm just, I'm, I'm blown away repeatedly at different areas.

We're we're in Jerusalem one of the days. And we walk over and our guide was, she was sort of a cultural Jew. she was, she was culturally Jewish. She wasn't not. Very devout by her own admission. And so she would, she would give us some history and she would just throw out a couple of little things, but there was a lot of the new Testament that it just sort of, she would just sort of gloss over.

And so I would try to, you know, and she would, she would defer to me to fill in some gaps. Of course. Yeah. And. We were, we were standing at the Southern steps and of the temple, and I had my, my little receiver in because she has her microphone and we're all wired in together. And I hear her say, where's, where's the Destin.

Where's Dustin. Oh, okay. There he, okay. So he's just wandering off. And so, and so I left, I just left the group and started walking up the Southern steps and yeah. And then knowing the whole connection with Pentecost and the Southern steps. And this is, this is most likely according to historians where Peter addresses the, the group and, and then the mic visor right there, the ritual baths for the, that would have led to the baptism.

And I just had this moment, they're just standing there, just dumbfounded. And then this is the, the, the common entrance to the temple precinct. And I'm just, I mean, I'm just, I don't even have any words. And so then everybody left. And went to the next area and, and I'm just still standing there. And I was with one of my friends and I looked at him and I said, do you realize where we are?

And I started talking to him and he started getting emotional. And I said, I am just completely undone by this moment. And then as we're talking. I realize I have no idea where anybody else is because now I hear, I hear the, the receivers starts to crackle because they're getting out of range. And I said, I guess we need to go find everybody, but this is just such a.

This is just such a moment where that all of the things that, that you're re you have read the stories you've heard, and then you're standing in the place and, and up on some of these stones, the ones that have not been replaced, right. You're standing there. Yeah, in this place, in this actual space, not a reconstruction, but the place and that changes everything.

And, and then I find that I go back now and when I'm, when I'm reading and I'm sure you can relate to that. You're, you're reading a passage or a text and now it's not the. The image that I had in my children's Bible right now, it's the shore of Galilee where I stood. Right. And it's the, it's the steps that I, I stepped on.

It's the, the view from the Mount of olives of, of the, the old city from, okay, this is, this is at least the direction and some of what, some of the things, at least in the general layout that yeah. That's how it would have been viewed. Right. And, and that everything changes from that point on, I tell people my only regret, I only have one regret about visiting Israel and that is, I did not do it sooner.

That's my only regret. I think a lot of, a lot of people have said to me before that, once you go, especially to Jerusalem, no place ever quite feels like home again. And I think there's some truth to that. And, I mean, you only want, but just because you've been one time you want to go back, like there's something, there's something about that land in those speeds, that space, and even the people who were still there today that they carry all these things.

Traditions that maybe they're not ours, but they're the foundation of a lot of ours. And it's just, there is this restful I don't want to have maybe not peace, but there's just this, this calm of just being there. and, and yeah, being in this, in this ancient space and, and yet, Being surrounded by a modern metropolis.

You know where, I mean, it's Jerusalem is the modern, well, depending on who you ask, but according to the U S anyway, it's the modern capital of the state of Israel. So, I mean, while laws are getting made there and they're dealing with all the things we deal with here in the us, it's also this. Ancient cradle of all.

I mean, God had his presence there until Jesus's resurrection. It's unlike any other place on earth and that convergence of, of the modern and the ancient, I don't know that that just speaks volumes to me. Obviously I'm an archeologist to bring that old stuff up. I've told people that that is Drew's alum is the only city.

And I don't mean anything supernatural by this, but it's the only city that I consistently dream about. Really like I have, I have more dreams about Jerusalem than any other place. And again, I'm not trying to make some. I'm not trying to connect. I'm just saying it is on my mind so much. We have a, we have a panoramic photograph, that were not taken by us, but we have a panoramic photograph from the Mount of olives, looking into looking at the old city from the Mount of olives and you know, the view, right?

Oh, I do. I do. I don't recommend that down at up. That's true. It is a trick, but we, we have that panoramic view on our dining room wall. So it's every day where we're looking at, we're looking at the old city, w was speaking of that, the, the old and the new, so it fused together, what, what recent archeological find.

has excited you the most, very, very recent. I'm sure you guys heard about the new dead sea scrolls that came up. and this is exciting to me as an archeologist also because of the technology that went into it. I don't know if your re your listeners have heard about this. but the story, I, I do a lot of research on it because I was obsessed when, when it first came out, but in 2007 is really.

The Israel antiquities authority got a group together, sort of a Coover group of archeologists and, geologists and all these people. And they decided, you know, we need to get into the GD and Highlands and we need to use drone technology and, all sorts of other technologies. That I don't understand and get in there and map out all of these caverns and see if we can tell what is in those places.

So they started in 2007 and they started recording all of this stuff. They're not done. I think there may be like 60% done with mapping all this out. Well, in the process of doing that, they identified places where there were. That archeologists needed to get into. And so, back in the 1950s, shortly after the original cache of the dead sea scrolls were discovered, the, one of the first professional archeologists to get on site went in and excavated something that became known as the cave before.

And it was called that because, they failed. 50 plus I think that's right skeletons there. And it was believed that they were the scenes, the people who had lived at Qumran and had created the dead sea scrolls. Well, when they were attacked by the Romans, they flooded into these caverns and, you know, the ultimately died there.

So the major archeological area. Innovation happened in the fifties, but for various reasons, they weren't able to get absolutely everything out. And one of the things they didn't get out were all of these scroll fragments. And it's because in some cases the fragments were so small, they were destroyed.

Discovered by sifting the dirt. So in modern times they were found by sifting the dirt, but the excavators in the 1950s had created while excavating. And when they sifted, they failed all of these fragments in there. Some of them were so small, they were like the size of a mustard seed. Hmm. And so they actually had, Archeo bought in this and they're going, Nope, that's a piece of scroll fragment.

That's a piece of scroll fragment because those people have the most amazing eyes and they can see stuff that normal people can't. so anyway, they found the scroll fragments, which are new to us. There are the books of mayhem and Nehemiah, I think. so those are great, but what really got me excited, was the, what else they found in there?

They, they failed a, a child. I think he was 10 to 12 years old. And he had been naturally mummified, not mummified, like in Egypt, you know, where they go through the process and remove your organs and all that. But just because of the climate, his body had naturally been mummified. So, I mean, that was sad. But then they also found this basket and it has been determined today to be the oldest basket in the world.

And it looks like a giant pair basically. And it's, they're dating at about 10,000 years old. And I just so happened to know the woman, or I should, I don't know her. I met her. When I was doing my last archeological, excavation and shimmer own. And, you know, she went in and they did all the dating and they're also taking all the trace amounts and they're going to figure out like what was contained in this basket, but it's like, it's practically in perfect condition.

And. So anxious. and so they failed it. So what they found was cool, but then the way they did it, because they had to take drones in there to figure it out. And then the drones could get into crevices and see things that, I mean, there were simply spaces that were too small for humans. We'll Sue them for the archeology, for the excavations to happen.

These people had to. Physically repel down, cliff faces to get into these tight areas, to do all this work. And so every day they had to go in there with all of their gear and do it. And every night they had to pull all of their gear plus whatever they found out and do it safely and just. It's an adventure.

And I feel like I go around telling people like archeology is nothing like Indiana Jones. It is, it's a lot of work. It's painstaking, it's scientific, but this is Indiana Jones stuff. Like, I feel like this, this just is completely contradicting everything that I've been telling people forever because. I mean, apparently you have to be a swashbuckling kind of person to discover some of these things.

So I just thought that was awesome. Just the way all of these different fields came together to make this happen. And I mean, there's still, I mean, I think hundreds of caves and crevices that need to be gotten into, so I think more is going to be coming out of this project. That's great. And if. The listeners have not seen those photos.

I I've seen the photos online of the basket. Yeah, it is remarkable. It is remarkable pottery. So like when you do archeology, most, most of that, although science is coming into a little bit more now, but for a hundred years, the way we dated things was based on what the pottery looked like, how it was shaped, how it was painted and then where it was.

Found and as far as like the strata of dirt, but this is, so this is so old, it's pre pottery it's from before pottery had been invented and these people had managed to make a basket waterproof, which I understand is a thing. Like, I think people can still do that state, but it blows my mind. I could never make a basket that was waterproof.

That's insane. But so the technology that went into creating this. Seeing that survived for 10,000 years. It just, it's also amazing to me and speak out. Clearly it looks like it looks like something. It looks like you've walked into a local craft fair. Oh, this isn't like pottery barn. You just saw this on a display table.

And because it, the condition. It, it truly is mind blowing. It is true. And that's just that area because it's so arid. but then again, it's not to air that everything dry rots. I mean, just the conditions had to be absolutely perfect to preserve that. And then, I mean, and then scientifically the sad side is you also see what the conditions did to, to the corpse because usually.

In archeology, we find the bones, the other stuff doesn't survive. but, but in this case it did. And so, I mean, that's, that's gonna, there's a lot to be researched and studied there as well to begin with who was this person who was there 6,000 years ago? You know, we, we don't necessarily know that yet sound.

It's also exciting. Well, okay. Because I have to ask. Okay. Okay. I have to ask. The best food you experienced in Israel? I know that's probably going to be hard, but what was it? What was it? And where did you have it? Because that was always the high point of every day was where am I going to eat? What am I going to eat?

And then there were things that. That I know. I know Rebecca, you found that. I found that then every day. That's all I wanted. So yeah. So do you, have you have one of those things? Absolutely. first off, I will say w w. We're we're we're kins then because my husband and I joke whenever we go on trips, anywhere that a vacation is killing time between feedings is the way we put it.

Like we set up based on where we're going to eat. We research the restaurants, all that kind of stuff. So it's all about that for us. And good. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. Restaurant wise, the best restaurant we ever ate at, is in Magdalena and it was called Magdalena and it was it's. I mean, it's in Magdalena, so it's right on the sea of Galilee.

And so all of the fish and everything that came into it was literally called hours before it hit your plate, which honestly that's the way it is. Pretty much everywhere in Israel, if you're getting seafood, it's, you know, getting there, it was called in the Mediterranean or the sea of Galilee or whatever that day.

but just the way they put everything together, that that was a fine dining kind of place, but more generically, You, you guys dream about Jerusalem? I actually did dream before I went back about the produce. There there's nothing like in Israeli cucumber or in Israeli tomatoes or something like that, no matter where we ate, I honestly, what I looked forward to and what I craved was the point, the produce there is just out of this world.

And I mean, we live in Tennessee, you know, we, I grew up with a. Backyard garden and fresh produce is not a natural to me, but there's something about the produce over there. That's I did, I literally dreamed about their cucumbers years before I was able to go back. It's insane. And salads are part that's a cultural thing.

Salads are part of every meal, every meal, like when you even breakfast. Yeah. I mean, I, there. yeah, their, their eating habits are different from ours. Like when you go into breakfast, if you're at a hotel or something like this, you probably experience this. Literally everything is there in the morning. I mean, you can get fish that still have their, you know, their, their fins and their heads on them.

And there's pizza over here. And the bread is incredible. They're entire spreads of different kinds of salads. And then, you know, grab yourself a real chocolate French croissant on the way out with your espresso. You know, breakfast is weird there for me. But you adjust to it. And I mean, I, I loved it. The food there's, all of the food is incredible.

Agreed. I remember loving that salad that they fix everywhere. That's just, it's just cucumber and tomato. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And then with some of the white cheese, yeah, yeah, yeah, man. We would just wake up like with a spin in our hand ready for breakfast because we loved it so much and we would try different things every day that the coffee at our hotel, I think.

I mean, we're both coffee connoisseurs, but I think we would both say that some of the best coffee that we've ever drank in our lives, it was so good. We loved it all. I don't remember the, I don't remember the coffee. Just, I mean, it was, it was good. I remember enjoying it, but we did a bed when I was on the archeological dig one night we went and had a better one meal and they prepared for us Turkish coffee.

And that was the first time I'd ever had Turkish coffee. And I mean, it was 10,000 degrees and of course it was 10,000 degrees outside to you. But you know, they came in. They're like, we drink it hot because if you drink it hot, it cools you off. That still doesn't totally make sense to me. But that was the best cup of coffee I ever had in my life.

And it was super, super strong. So I think you have to love coffee tea to go for the Turkish stuff. But that I, I dream about that a little bit too. I guess I don't dream about it. I guess I'll lay awake thinking about it. It's awesome. I love it. We both, I mean, I would say once every five or six weeks. I have some type of dream.

Sometimes I'm in an airport on the way that Israel, for some reason bad. And then there have been several sea of Galilee dreams, but it, every few weeks I will have one. it's one of my recurring dreams. So yeah. Well, Amanda, we. We love you. We're so excited about this book and just how it will help educate our friends and, and hopefully renew that passion to hopefully one day, either go or go back to Israel.

And so we're just. We're excited about the work that you do, and we're thankful that you would Chronicle at all in a book for us. And so I want everybody to go check out your book, the red haired archeologists it's out in the world by the time listeners will listen to this episode. And so what we're about to do is go get to know you a little bit better over on our Patrion community.

So for subscribers over there, make sure you check out that conversation, but Amanda, we just want to say a huge thank you for your time today. We're so grateful for you. Well, thank you. I've so enjoyed sharing all of this and talking with you both. This has been awesome. So fun. Yes.