Episode 133. Trusting God In the Dark with Ginny Owens

Unedited Transcript

I am so thrilled to have you on the show today. Thank you for being with me. Oh, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. This is so good. I always get really excited when I get to talk to a Mississippi girl and I was so thrilled to know that you, so it was that you grew up in Jackson, right?

Yes, I did. I grew up from birth until the end of high school. Okay. That's so cool. Was there, I want to know, um, Okay. So we live in a super small town, not S not far. About an hour from Jackson. Yeah. Um, so we definitely have more of the small town feel where we are and Jackson is a little bigger, but then you moved.

Did you move directly to New York? Now? I moved to Nashville after that. So I lived in Nashville for a long time. New York is a very recent move only three years ago. Okay. Okay. Cool. And did you, like, what was that transition like for Mississippi? It's pretty crazy. Yeah. I was not, I didn't know what to expect.

Um, Nashville was totally different. Well, at the time, Nashville, like Jackson was probably. About half the size of Nashville. Okay. So it wasn't like that huge of a difference, you know, but now Nashville is way bigger. So, um, but yeah, it was, it was very different just, um, especially going to college. Cause I had lots of friends from all over.

So I remember the first time I went home for. Uh, for a holiday. And I said to, my brother passed me the pop he's like the pop, where are you from? It's Coke. It's always Coke, whatever it is, it's Coke. So I remember just like picking up things that my friends were saying that were from around the country and my family would always laugh at me for that.

So, yeah, that's really cool. And do you, do you love New York? Like what's it for those of us who just get to go on vacation? What's the actual life of. And New York city girl, like, well, during the pandemic, it's, you know, it's hard to say, but, um, it's, it's staying inside a lot, which I don't mind either.

Cause there's, I'm also in seminary, so there's just endless work to do so. Um, but you know, it's really pretty fun. What I love about it is that, um, it's. It's a very walkable city. Obviously, you know, the streets are in a grid patterns. It's pretty easy to get around and there's of course the train and whatnot.

And so, um, that is a very wonderful thing. And then just, you know, I find people to be in general, very helpful and friendly. Um, you know, they're, they're tough. You know, so there's a, there's an element of that. Um, and then there's just, you know, there's certain things about New York that are hard, like when it's raining and you have to go out, that's just not fun.

Cause you don't really have a car. So, um, you just have to kind of do it. Um, but I really do enjoy it. I feel like, um, As somebody that can't see the, um, you know, you, you mostly live, like if you don't live in New York, you live in places where you have a car. So I've always been driving in a car with somebody.

And so because of that, you don't get to experience your surroundings. So I feel like I actually now get to see in a certain way, um, everything that's going on around me, because you just hear the conversations and you, uh, you know, just sort of have a sense of the people and you get to. His smell all the smells for better or worse.

And so I do feel like I get to experience the fullness in a way that I haven't before, which is really cool. That's really, really cool. I could see that. And man, in this season, you. You are putting out some amazing stuff you were, were you not a part of the faithful project? I was, yeah. Okay. Yeah, because we're not here to talk about the day.

We're going to talk about your book, but how cool was that? Was that, was that so fun to be a part of? It was so fun. Yes. We had a blast. Um, and I'm just so thankful that we really got to do the writing of the songs before the pandemic hit. Oh, wow. So, um, you know, we had kind of all gotten together and, um, for three different times and written all these different songs, which was so much fun.

And so, yeah, it was a really, really special, special thing to be a part of so fine, Sandra McCracken and I chatted about it and we're going to have a. An episode release on the show to talk all about it. So I love, I loved her and I just loved it. God did through so many incredible women just to be a part of that was so cool to see.

So yeah, it was really, really special. Yes. I love that. So you've had that going on and you've got a new book coming out. It's called singing in the dark finding hope in the songs of scripture. And I'm so excited that we get to talk about it today. And I always love kind of hearing the story behind the story, right.

Like when I talk to authors. And so I would love to just hear a little bit of your personal story and how you found hope and the songs of scripture. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, really the running theme of the book is how to find hope. Uh, that lasts in a world that just doesn't offer us any real lasting hope.

And so a lot of the book is, is stories of me kind of getting dropped on my head as I keep looking for hope and places where it is not, and keep hanging my hat on things that can not ultimately give me hope. And, um, and then kind of looking also at songs of scripture that that show show me. But there's another way.

And that there is really hope that we find in, in God. And, um, so for me there is, um, you know, because I have been a singer for most of my life, um, I feel like there's something that is really, really beautiful about singing and thinking about when we think about, you know, loving God and experiencing him thinking about that through the lens of music, because, and some people will be like, well, I'm tone deaf.

I don't want to sing, but I don't think you actually have to sing. I think for most of us though, singing is one of those things that requires. Of us stuff that everything else in the world doesn't. So like when you hear a song, your body responds, you know, your mind like reflects on the lyrics and you might even remember the melody and you, and you do sometimes sing along whether you can or not.

And so I got to thinking, you know, what would it be like? And what I've had to learn in my own life is what would it be like? If I was actually singing scripture, meaning what would it be like if, if I was responding to scripture in that kind of a deep way like that, it was really in my heart mind, body, soul.

Um, if God's voice was, was that, you know, present in my life. And so I think. Um, the reason that that meant so much to me is being someone that has, you know, known faith for most of my life and, and known Jesus for most of my life, but yet has, you know, several times just, you know, really found myself in seasons of, I wouldn't say turning away from it, but trying in my own strength.

To get through life and trying to kind of make my own hope. Um, and, and then having to learn again that, that it's, it's not going to work and learning just the beauty and the power that comes from then learning the songs of scripture to kind of, um, to rest in and to sing over ourselves as we, as we go through life.

Um, I, as I have been learning that I've really wanted to help other people learn that too. That's really, really good. And it just reminds me of what we so often forget that, you know, God's dwelling place is, is in us, right? Yes. And we had a recent conversation. I don't know if it will proceed or be after this, um, in our schedule, but it was with an author named Jeanie Kenyan, and she just wrote a book about, um, the Holy spirit and it's called don't miss out.

Um, I dunno, this conversation just reminds me a lot of, um, that truth that we so often forget that he walks with us and his spirit is dwelling inside us at all times, no matter what we're facing. And especially over the last year and a half, that's just been a powerful truth in my own life to remember.

Absolutely. It's easy to miss out too. So, yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that you talk about in the book is how. Joy as possible. And I love for you to just encourage somebody. Maybe who's listening today and they've experienced a ton of hardship over the last couple of years. I feel like they're really lacking joy in this season.

How would you want to encourage them? I would want to encourage them first by saying, uh, well maybe with a little story. Uh, I remember I don't remember much for middle school, but I remember because, you know, middle school is kind of dreadful for all of us, but I do remember a moment in middle school when I was going through just excessive, like ridiculous amounts of bullying, or at least it felt like that to me.

And just some main girls that wouldn't. Give up. And I remember one afternoon after school, just after a particularly hard day, my mom said, you know, Jenny, Jesus is always your best friend, but there are going to be some days when it feels like, or he might even be your only friend. And I promise you can trust him because you got to remember, he has been through the worst darkness.

He's been through the ultimate darkness because he loved you that much. And that means that. Nothing is too big for him to handle. You can tell him everything that's on your heart. And I think part of what happens to us is that we hold back from God. We don't actually tell him what's on our hearts. And we don't remember that Jesus loves us so much that he went through the ultimate sorrow, the ultimate pain, the ultimate separation, so that, um, so that we could have joy.

So I think. Part the first thing that we have to do. Um, and of course, like as a middle schooler, I was like, yeah, whatever, mom, I just want friends, but you know, that truth has continued to resonate with me because I know that the first thing I've got to do is go back to it every day. And especially when I'm having a difficult time and say, okay, Jesus, I know that you were there.

I don't know why you're allowing this hard thing, but I know you love me. Um, because you went through ultimate pain so that I could have joy and confidence even in this life. And I mean, that's the thing, like he, he tells us that that even. You know, and of course in this world, we're going to have trouble, but we can take heart because he has overcome it.

So I think it's PR it's first going back to that place as many times as we need to, which sometimes is multiple times a day, remembering that he is faithful, that he is good. And just remembering that he is walking with us and holding us in our pain. Because he does know it. He does know what loss is and loneliness is.

I mean, we have that beautiful story of him raising Lazarus from the dead, but crying weeping before it, you know, um, cause he hated death. He hated what that brought. So going there first, I think is really helpful because it helps us to trust him. And it's kind of starts the process of. Thinking about joy.

And then I think from there Lang before him, everything like pouring it all out to him. I do think that, you know, because a lot of times our tendency is to do what I call praying polite prayers. It's kinda like, Hey God. Yeah, everything's good. Everything's fine. Yeah, that doesn't work. It doesn't, I mean, it doesn't work in relationships either like with, with humans.

So it certainly isn't going to work with God. So if we're going to him like, like the Psalmus did and actually saying what's going on, laying out our pain, our frustration, and doing that and asking him to work in it. I think that is the next step. So believing that he can and then actually telling him all of those things.

And then finally, I think, um, finding a passage, maybe it's a passage specifically about joy. Or contentment. I, one of my favorites is Philippians four, like four, three 13, and just camping out there, you know, for even, I don't know, a few months and just reading it slowly over and over and asking God what he wants to teach us about him, what he wants to teach us about ourselves.

Or maybe it's something like, you know, some 23 that maybe a lot of us have known already, but just finding some places of hope. To live with, to walk through slowly again and again, to meditate on. I think joy grows out of that. You know, I would love to say, well, just pray for joy and maybe tomorrow it'll come and that, that could happen.

But I do think we can move ourselves. Um, As, as we know that God is pursuing us, as we start to pursue him, um, we can move toward him and move toward that place of joy at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. That's so powerful. I, a lot of times we'll come back to that phrase in Philippians four. Um, Where Paul sort of unpacks all the things where to, to think about.

Right. And I love the one where he says, I'm thinking on the things that are worthy of praise and, and just so that I have sort of a phrase to come back to you. I'll, I'll ask myself the question like. Is that is what I just said or is what I just thought or what I just yeah. Is what I just thought worthy of praise, you know?

Yeah. Um, so good. Yeah. I think that's, that's just been a powerful question to come back to you in my own thought life. So I love that. Okay. I want to talk about the song writing process for you. What we haven't talked about is there's also an album releasing with the book as well, right? Yeah. Yes. That's so exciting.

I want to hear, um, I don't know, is there a favorite story of yours? Maybe? I don't know. We can talk about this album if you want, or, or maybe there's one from another. You know, something else that you've done, I've just how God really spoke to you. And just really met you in a, in a sweet, personal way as you were writing.

Like, do you have a favorite story of when that happened? Oh, I have tons of them. Yes. I feel like songwriting is one of those places where you can definitely have communion with God. And a lot of times it's because a song continues to speak to you. Um, one of my favorites is, uh, from a song that I wrote a long time ago now called if you want me to, and it's a song that I began writing.

Right after college, when I was desperately seeking a job as a high school choir director, that's what I thought I was going to be when I grew up. And the Lord did not provide, said job. And I remember going to all of these interviews with different, um, Supervisors and principals and they would just be so awkward.

And, um, you could tell that just, they didn't know what to do with somebody who couldn't see. It was very strange for them. And, um, Oh, the tension was just like, Whoa. And I remember at first kind of being like, okay, God, I get it. You're going to develop my character. You're going to really, you know, strengthen me.

And, you know, after a few months that sort of resolved to kind of do what he was asking, just ran out. I was like, okay, God, what are you doing? What am I supposed to do with my life? Why aren't you, why aren't you delivering? And, um, it was during that season, that really kind of dark place where. He began to teach me that trust looks like taking the very next step with him.

And even if you don't know what is ahead, would you usually, don't, there's an illusion of control that most of us live with, but we don't actually know what's ahead. So I, um, I remember just learning a step-by-step that surrender looked like, just really resting in him, trusting in him and taking it minute by minute and not expecting to see beyond that.

And that surrender is a continual process. You just have to keep coming back and doing it. Right. So, um, as I wrote that song, Um, and finished it with a friend a year later, I had no idea that, that it would encourage other people. And yet it's still one of those songs that every night that I get to sing it, it means something different to me.

Uh, I mean, it still comes back to surrender, but we, we never like quite learn the surrender process. Do we, we always have to. They keep doing it. So, um, yeah, I think that was one of those that, that the Lord really met me and kind of taught me about surrender as I wrote that song. And then as I've continued to sing it, he continues to teach me, um, about surrender.

I love that. That's such a cool, the story. And for those of us who love that song, myself included, it's really cool to hear like your own personal path too. To that song. I think that's what sometimes if we're not in this line of work of, of writing books or, um, you know, songwriting and things like that, we maybe take for granted, like the, I don't know the path to that project, right?

Like it's such a, such an honor to me to get to talk to authors and just hear, um, The path behind, you know, the story, the story behind the story, I'll say a lot of times. And, um, I always just love hearing those stories of how God moved. Um, Long before we held an album or a book in our hands, the stories are just really special.

So, and God's always moving. Like that's the thing. And I, I think, um, I was, I was talking to some, a friend about this, like, you know, we always kind of. Especially in our kind of fast moving digital age with social media and stuff. We want affirmation for everything. You know, like we want, if we think God is sending us in a certain direction, we want to try something and then to work and then people to say, great, you're doing the right thing, you know?

And, um, uh, I remember like, right, even before I, um, Ended up, uh, you know, wholeheartedly pursuing, being a music teacher, like right at the end of my junior year of college, I had still been a performance major and an, and an education major. And I was really thinking, well, maybe there's an opportunity for me to do music for a living.

And I remember one of my professors saying, you know, Ginny, your voice is just weak. I just can't imagine that ever translating, you know, into any kind of career and, um, I remember at the time being of course just. Kind of heartbroken that she would say that. And so I dropped my performance major, but that the blessing in that was that I got out in four years, so less money spent, but also during my last semester, before I student taught.

So, so the very next semester after that conversation happened, I was in something like 23 hours of gen EDS. Cause as a. Music major, you just put the general education classes. Also, I had like Western Civ and biology dreadful, but during those classes I wrote what would become most of my first album. And I had no idea that was going to happen.

So I think it's just knowing too, that. Even in the mundane, even if nobody is affirming you or looking at what you're doing to just know that that is, that is the beautiful place where God can meet you and deepen your trust and deepen your character and even your waiting skills, which just sounds like, wow, it's not fun.

And yet it is, it is a beautiful place where we can really just learn that, uh, he is trustworthy and he is faithful. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. So, so good. Well, Jenny, I am so excited about your book. I'm going to say the name of it. One more time. It is called singing in the dark finding hope in the songs of scripture.

So I want listeners to go check the book out. You can grab it. Wherever books are sold, you can connect with Jenny online. Um, tell them where might be kind of the best place for you to connect with them. Yeah. Well, you can find all the things@ginnyowens.com, which is G I N N Y owens.com. And then Facebook is Jenny Owens music and Insta Graham is Jenny Owens official.

Awesome, good deal. Okay. I'm so excited to go over to our Patrion audience to talk. More just about you and ask them really fun kind of bonus questions. So we're going to do that now, but for this part of the conversation, Jenny, I just want to say a huge, thank you for you being with us me today. Oh, thank you.

It's been fun to chat.