Episode 178. Healing Your Marriage When Trust is Broken with Cindy Beall
Cindy. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to get to know you. Well, thanks for having me, Rebecca. I am thrilled to be here. Well, the chat with you, I know this is going to be fun. So I am so excited to dig into marriage today and into your book. That's rereleasing you wrote it. What? 20 years?
Is that right? Wrote it 10 years ago, 10 years ago. And then our story we've been on a journey of healing for 20 years. That's what I'm thinking of. Yes. Okay. So yeah, I'm so excited to dig into that today and just give listeners, maybe this is a good place to start a little bit of background about your story and why you are so passionate about walking alongside couples in their own redemption story, because you have one of your own, right.
So let's kind of start there and then go through. Yeah. So 20 years ago, uh, it was the fall of 2001 and my husband and I came to life church in Oklahoma. And he was interviewing for a role at Lac church as a worship pastor. And so he actually got the role and he started in January of. And he was leading worship and I was singing with them because that's what we had always done.
And six weeks on the job, February the 19th, 2002, he comes home and he says, we need to talk. And nobody ever wants to hear that phrase. And so I knew something was wrong. And so he sat me down and just went through, uh, the worst news that any wife or husband would want to hear is that I've been unfaithful many times, many different places.
I've, you know, I've stepped out and I've been with a lot of people and I pretty much have addicted to pornography. I mean, he didn't say that the pornography part at the beginning, cause at first. What, and then, you know, you go through these questions, like, am I not pretty enough? And all these things I do wrong.
And so really it was, it wasn't like an inappropriate relationship with someone. It was basically a 20 something year addiction to pornography that actually started when he was eight with a magazine. So, um, so hearing all of that, that led up to it. Um, at least I recognize. Okay. There's a, there's a big issue here.
Yes. Our marriages is, is not well, but my husband needs freedom. And so that is his desire for freedom is actually what led him to confess. Um, even after six weeks on the job at his new dream job. Yeah. Wow. That was 20 years ago. Yeah. I'm you know, I'm thinking about. The women listening right now who have their own version, maybe of a similar story.
And maybe they're walking through that right now. And I'm wondering, as you think back on the Cindy of, of 20 years ago, like what encouragement would you want to give her? Right now, if she's just really in the thick of sitting down and having a very similar conversation with her spouse, and I'm saying that because mostly women listened to this show, there's not a lot of men that listen.
So that's mainly who we're talking to. Right. And so for her, well, they are missing out. I know, right? Um, yeah, I would tell her exactly what was told to me. I would say you don't have to decide. The rest of your life today, typically in situation. Yeah. Typically in situations like this, we as women. Um, and that's what I'm just going to speak to women, obviously.
So, um, we are thinking, well, I've already wasted time with my husband. Like he's already broke about trust and I don't want to waste any more time. So I gotta figure this out. I gotta figure out my neck. So I see that a lot in women. And so I would just always say, look. I know you don't want to be made a fool of anymore.
I know you're not sure what the next step is, but look, you don't have to fear six months from now right now. And so that's what the biggest encouragement is just to okay. Take a deep breath. What's the next step? Like. Where are we going next? You don't have to file for divorce or go do whatever you're going to do on that day.
Yeah. Uh that's I could see, I could see that, that that's certainly what, what I would tend to do, especially if there's a crazy circumstance in my life, I feel like I have to figure out. You know, the next, what the next five years are going to look like. And that's just not, um, whether it's our marriages or anything else in life.
Yeah. It's we don't have to have, and that's very biblical. Right. We see in scripture, like don't worry about tomorrow because today has, you know, enough evil as, as, as was already present in our lives or whatever the quote is. And so, yeah, I think that's really good advice. And I'm wondering, you know, as you think back on the last 20 years of your life, What do you know about God that you didn't know 20 years ago?
Ah, man, I tell ya, he's so sweet. Um, I already knew that about him, but he really is. And I think what I, I just, he's such a tender caregiver of our heart. Um, I mean he is the creator of the universe and he forms mountains. Fashioned the human body and he can destroy anything and just like that, but he is so tender and compassionate.
Um, whether we are the recipient of pain from someone else's actions or whether we cause it ourselves. Cause sometimes we cause it ourselves. Yeah. Uh, I think that's, that's been a sweet thing to see him in that light. Um, Because I've gone to him many times over 20 years and just crying and hurting and he's just tender and compassionate.
He is. I love that. I think we mentioned this at the beginning of the show, but you are, rereleasing your book, healing your marriage when trust is broken, you wrote this 10 years ago and. What happens? I think when I talked to authors who are rereleasing books, one, it means you write a really good book. And so that's, that's also evidence that this message needs to be talked about more.
And I'm wondering also when people rerelease books, typically there's like, all right. I wrote what I knew 10 years ago. And I've learned some stuff in 10 years. So I'm wondering, what is that for you as you have been walking down this path of, of maybe, I don't know how much of it you revamped, but let's talk through that.
Like, what's been new for you in these last 10 years that you felt was really important for. Yeah. So the book has, you know, it has had some success, um, not like New York times bestselling author success, but like a lot of people are still buying it. It's still a very needed book for people who are, um, I call it.
Couples that are in the emergency room for them. It's trauma, like, oh my gosh, we got to stop the bleeding. Um, so I felt like there was just, this is kind of going to be one of those timeless books for awhile, I think because. Unfortunately marriage has continue to get, you know, they go through hard things and they, whether it's, uh, something upon the marriage, whether it's the craziness that we've had in the last 18 months or whether it's an action that someone, one of the spouses has done.
So I wanted it to feel fresh and. Honestly, like you said, to kind of revamp some things. So the book is actually the same. We didn't really change. We changed very little of the original book, but what I did is at the end of every chapter, I added a section that says 20 years later. And so, you know, when you hear a story, a story about someone and you think, gosh, I wonder how they're doing now, or I wonder what's going on in their lives now.
I wanted there to be an extra layer of hope added in for when the viewer or the listener or viewer or listener are missing. That when the reader, uh, who is, uh, you know, going through it that they're like, wow, Okay, so this isn't just like a two year journey for them. Like they've been doing this for 20 years.
And so I wanted that level of encouragement and also just to share some new things that God had shown me over the years. But one of the things that was really powerful, um, that God really just blew my mind with is. So the, the original book has a final chapter called better than new. And when my husband came clean and confessed, our pastor Craig Rochelle spoke over us to our church, that we would be a church who is a hospital for Chris and Cindy to heal.
And we will see them be better than new. And so that was this kind of been our catchphrase, you know, better than new. As I'm right as I'm working on like the final chapter. Cause my publisher's like, Hey, um, put another chapter in or my editor did. And I'm like, ah, but it's better than new. Like what do I say next is still better than new?
I mean, what do I do? And so what was really cool is as I was finishing off adding to the 20 years later, I felt like God said, talk to them as if they've never been through betrayal. I was like, Hmm. So the example there is that I will have couples or women, mostly who will come to me and say, after a betrayal, and they'll say, man, he did this and we're really struggling.
And I know it's because of this. And sometimes it could be tied to whatever happened years ago. But a lot of times it's just because they're married and marriage is one of the most profound. Difficult, uh, relationships to be in because you're, if there's so much friction in some of the fleshly moments that we have.
And so I just wanted to encourage some of these couples with, you know, I want you to read this chapter as if you've never gone through this. And so it's got 20 insights 20 years later, so. How? Yeah. So that's kind of the whole gist of it. And I got a brand new cover, which was, it looks amazing. Yeah. That's awesome.
You know, and I'm thinking about, and this is part of the title. So healing your marriage when trust is broken. When I think about trust, I think of, and I think it was Gary Chapman. This is probably Gary Chapman speak, but the whole. The whole concept of emotional deposits and withdrawals, right? When, um, when trust is broken, it was what he would call an emotional withdrawal.
Hope that Sam people are gonna, people are telling us while I was there listening like yeah. Or no, that's not Gary Chapman. I'm going to look when we get off. But I think it's Gary Chapman and when trust is broken and that. Emotional withdrawal takes place. It's not one-to-one right. Like it's not one-to-one of, okay.
You know, a week from now, I've restored that trust and I'm back to where I used to be. That's just not how it works. And so as far as trust goes, you know, you're, you're 20 years out from, from this story. What have you learned about trust? And how, how could you be like a big sister for a moment to our listeners who maybe their trust has been broken and they, they are seeking redemption for their marriage.
Um, how, how would you want to encourage them in that? Well, I would tell them that, um, your heavenly father didn't let you down a human being did, but your heavenly father is completely trustworthy. Proverbs three, five, and six. So it tells us what trust in the Lord. All our hearts and lean, not on our own understanding.
It doesn't say trust in your husband with all your heart or your mother or your best friend. Those are, it's great to have relationships that we trust, but if our complete trust is not in our heavenly father will continue to be. You know, cycle of disappointment because people are people and they keep letting us down because there's a problem it's called humanity.
And I would just say that, just learning to trust your heavenly father, as you see trust being built up, that's basically what I did with Chris. So of course he confesses all this things to me. I can't trust my husband. I'm S I'm afraid if he leaves the house what's going to happen, but God was. Do you trust me?
Do you trust me? And so I didn't see 20 years ahead in 2002, but God saw it obviously. And he knew that I would write a book and he knew that I would Chris and I would share our story, um, a week and a half ago from the time of this recording, my husband preached it live church and shared our story to hundreds of thousands of viewers because we have 37 locations and 12, 11 states.
And then we have the church online. As for the world. So like, so many people heard about this and, and I'm just telling you, I, I did, I couldn't have seen that 20 years ago. I just took the next step and said, okay, God, I trust you. Yeah. So that is, uh, that was the most profound thing to go through. And the hardest was to, to trust a God that honestly, you know, we can't see him, we could see things he does and he creates so we can experience him.
He is not a fleshly being that it can touch. So that was, that was a journey. But I'm so thankful I did that because what it's done for me now is trusting God fully has allowed me to just give grace to people when they fail, because I want grace given to me when I fail. So, yeah, but that comes from that deep well of.
All of our trust being in the Lord. Right? Not in, in people. I can think back of a season of my life when I was single. It was before I got married and. I didn't get married until I was almost 27. And so I went through that season of like being a bridesmaid eleventy million times, and I never felt like I was going to be my turn and raise the worst.
And I can remember in that season, the song king of my heart came out. Do you remember that the king of my heart, he's the mountain where I run down to drink from. So there's, so the lyrics are beautiful, but then there's this bridge where over and over, it says you're never going to let me down. You're never going to let me down and I can remember.
Sitting in church one particular morning singing that. And I was just praying and just being really honest with the Lord of what he already knew of like, that doesn't feel true right now because I do, I do fill that down. Um, but, and then I just began asking myself the question, well, what about God? Am I not like, there's something in me that doesn't truly understand his character or, um, What am I believing about him?
That's untrue, right? Because I know theology would tell me that's not true. And I think what I was doing, I was, I was tying my circumstances to God's goodness, rather than. Uh, seeing his goodness and his character and his unchanging character, despite what was going on around me. And so I just, I was thinking about that as you were talking, because I think we've all had those moments where maybe we've sung a song and we've thought like, okay, that doesn't feel true.
Well, the, what about my thinking is not in alignment with his word, you know? And I think that's what I was having to kind of stood out in that season. I love that. And what about our expectations? You know, we have, you had a dream to be married. 22 or 20 or whatever it was for you. And so that the lack of, uh, seeing him as good or trustworthy was all because, well, I had an expectation.
It didn't get met, Shirley, God, let me down, you know, we, we do that a lot. I do that plenty as well, so yeah, definitely. Something that also happens a lot in, in these types of, um, situations that we're talking about today in marriages is deception right in this and this idea of deception. And so if somebody is listening today and they are maybe on the front end of this, they feel that they are being deceived in their marriage, but maybe it's not been confronted yet.
They don't even know where to start. Um, How, where would you encourage them to turn? How would you encourage them to take steps forward? What does that look like? Yeah. So I was kind of actually there, so that two and a half year period that my husband was acting out and really in the throws of his sin, um, I knew something was wrong.
Um, but I could have never guessed this. I kinda just chalked it up to, well, I guess this is just something marriage married couples go through is we just go through seasons. Not enjoyable, um, which I know is true. They're seizes, but like for two and a half years, that's a, that's a long season. And so I, I think if I had, could go back and this is one of the things I learned about my contribution to where our marriage culture was in that season is I was an enabler.
Um, did not confront him. W when, when things were questionable, I just let it slide. He was, and he will admit this. He was a master manipulator and he did a lot of gas lighting, which is, you know, turning the tide switching a bit. And, and so I just wish I had been able to push through some of the difficult conversations I knew would come by bringing some things up.
Um, but even before that, like I was already praying, like I was on my knees praying and yeah. I do look, I did look back and go, God, I was asking you for two and a half years, what was going on? And this is what I get. So, I mean, I did have that moment with God, but even now, 20 years later, I can say, well, then the story would just be different.
And I don't know why God tarried in answering that. I don't know. I just know that I still trust him. Yeah. And he I've seen him do quite a work. So I would just say. No, your boundaries. It's, you're going to sacrifice as a married person, regardless. I mean, it's, it's not a 50 50. It is an all in every day.
This is what we do. And so sacrifice is a part of it, but also know how to set boundaries and don't be a doormat. And so that's, that's what I wish I had maybe done differently. Um, but then pray down heaven and earth for God. To open reveal things, even if the things that are going to be revealed or painful.
Yeah. And I think sometimes, and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this. Cindy thinks sometimes we don't know how to get help. Um, I think sometimes maybe we have the personality where not being a doormat is easier said than done because we've been a doormat our whole lives. And so we don't know how to not be a doormat.
And I just want to give freedom to anybody listening, who. Maybe doesn't feel like they have the tools or the, the ability to know how to not be a doormat that it's like so more than okay. To get help. Um, it's actually the best thing that maybe you could do. Would you, would you agree, like w how do you, where do you stand on that?
Like, how do you want to encourage people there? Yeah, and I definitely want, I mean, we are daughters of the king of Kings. We are full of, we have dignity because of who we belong to. And so, um, you deserve to be treated kindly and respectfully and, and with dignity. So yeah, whatever it is, you know, but don't cross over to the point where it becomes.
Bitter root that's grown in you. So the whole point would be so that for you to become this person who can actually show grace, but also, um, know when to say, okay, well, um, I'm not going to allow you to treat me that way. It's kind of like when you have a teenager, uh, for those listening might know exactly what I'm talking about and you want them to be able to communicate with you, but the way they communicate, you know, so like my teenager might say, well, The eye, he says something I'm like, um, okay, well, I appreciate that, but you're not ever allowed to talk to me that way, you know, it's it, you could have said the same thing in a very respectful tone.
So, um, but, and I would also say the hardest thing for me. When Chris would start turning things around. Cause he's very quick with it and I'm not. Um, I, I would just say if you're in that situation, try to stick to the question, try to stick to the base, like go back to the original instead of following all these trails.
Cause that's what I got suckered in. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. No, it totally helps. It totally helps. You know, something that you talk about in the book, and we've touched on this a little bit, but I'll give you the chance to share anything more that you want is relying on God is you pursued forgiveness, which again, like we've said, that is a journey.
It's a marathon, not a sprint. And you've spent 20 years walking through this part of your story. And so what does relying on God? As you pursue forgiveness, what does that look like? Um, for people and what's that look like in your own marriage? You know, pursuing forgiveness, um, is harder for some people than others.
Um, I tend to be someone who forgives easily. Um, I don't know why, except that when someone says, Hey, man, I'm sorry. And I'm like, okay. You know, usually now I sh I can't say that, like, when Chris asks for forgiveness, of course, it was a little bit more in depth detail and in depth there. But at the end of the day, I, I knew.
That his actions were not a reflection of what he really wanted. Like his intentions, like did not, Kristen not get married to me and then go through the process and think, you know what? I cannot wait to break my wife's heart. That was not his intention. And so I recognize that he's a faulty human being just like I am.
And so I was able to say, okay, I know that this was a season and this is what happened. And he chose to love himself more than me in those dark days. But at the end of the day, I, I want to show him the grace that has been shown to me. And so I learned so much about forgiveness with God, because. R a funny creatures, um, in that as Christ followers, we so want the grace of God.
We sing about it. We pray for it. We're so thankful for it. But then the moment someone needs that from us, we have a hard time distributing it. So I don't want to just. Dead sea of grace and not give it out and give people the benefit of the doubt, you know? So that's along that lines with forgiveness and who God is to me that I don't know.
I think that that's kind of what I would sum up that area. That's so good. Have you read the book for giving what you can't forget? . Oh, yes. Okay. I've been I've I assumed. Yeah. Um, there's something in there that she talks about and it's so good. And I've heard her speak several times on that message, but one of the things that really stuck with me and I felt like allowed, speaking of grace allowed me to give myself some grace when I was forgiving others is where she talks about, you know, when somebody apologizes and you say, Accept your apology.
That's forgiving someone for the actual offense of what happened, but what continues to happen and where I tend to not give myself grace is, um, continuing to forgive the other person for the effects of what happens after that, because the relationship doesn't just immediately get restored. And that was really transformative to me.
In that. Okay. I can continue to forgive those pieces that come after, but I don't have to let it take root as bitterness in my heart because that's, that's what happens a lot of times. Right. We, we don't continue to walk that path of forgiveness. We just let bitterness grow or at least I do. So that was so powerful to me.
It's it is so true because like, when that you, you forgive them for the act and. Two days later, something happens and you're reminded and it hurts again. And you're thinking crap, sorry. Can I say what I thought? I thought I thought I, I thought I forgave them, but it's these triggers. And I talk about it all through the book like this, these triggers that come up and remind you and they throw you back into that unwanted circumstance.
Yeah. Well, great. I got to start all over, but know that that's a very powerful thing to know. Okay. This is just the effects, because when that pain comes, we we've got to, we've got to blame someone. Right. And so we're like, uh, so yeah, that's tough. And I would say in those moments, pushing through the pain has got to be what we do because we often, we just want to run.
We just want to go around the pain and ignore it. But man, if we don't go through it to the other side, We will not heal well. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. So good. So one of the questions I love asking our guests has to go or has to do with sort of the theme of our podcast, our names radical radiants and our heart around here is really to help women see how they can radiate the heart of Jesus in their life, their work, their relationships, all of the things.
And so this goes back to a verse in Psalm 34 it's verse five, and it says those who look to him are radiant and their faces are never covered in shame. And so the question I love asking is Cindy, what about Jesus makes you radiant? Ooh. Wow. Um, I think rep doing my best, um, to represent him through my. My shortcomings and my pain.
Um, I think when, I don't know if this is exactly what you're asking, but one of the best compliments I ever receive is when someone says I can tell Cindy Beall has been with Jesus like that, that might, that's probably the best thing someone can ever say about me. She's known. She knows Jesus. She's she's been with the father.
Like she, she knows him. Uh, so yeah. That's yeah, that's good. And it goes back to that verse, right? Those who look to him are radiant. It has nothing to do with outer beauty. It has nothing to do with anything, but looking to him and, and keeping our eyes on him. That's so good. Well, Cindy, I am so excited about the rerelease of this book.
I'm going to say the title of it. One more time. It's healing your marriage when trust is broken. I just am so grateful to you. You, you didn't have to do this, right. You didn't have to allow God to use. He redeemed your story once, but he's continuing to redeem other stories because of your obedience. And that's just such a goal thing, such a beautiful thing.
And so I'm so excited for our listeners to get their hands on the book. And I just want to say a huge thank you for your time today. Thank you. I loved our visit. I appreciate you.
