Episode 177. Our Words Matter with Caroline Newheiser and Cheryl Marshall
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Unedited Transcript
Caroline, Cheryl, I am so excited to have you on the show today. Thank you for joining me.
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[cheryl_marshall]: Thank you. Thank you. your happiness.
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[cheryl_marshall]: Thank you. Thank you. your happiness.
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[rebecca_george]: It always I know I'm so excited. It's always fun when you get to get
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[rebecca_george]: together with pastor's wives. So we, we all fall in that camp which is
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[rebecca_george]: really fun And so I'm so excited to get to know you ladies, and also to get
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[rebecca_george]: to talk about your book. It is called when words matter most, speaking truth
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[rebecca_george]: with grace to those you love, and I'll tell you, you know, when I got the
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[rebecca_george]: email about your book, it made me so excited because I think this topic
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[rebecca_george]: matters so much, especially right now, inside and outside of the local
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[rebecca_george]: church. I just think there are so many implications to this and it, it's
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[rebecca_george]: just um conversation that matters to me. And so I'm excited to hear from you
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[rebecca_george]: guys about your heart for it before we get too deep. though, when I have two
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[rebecca_george]: people on an interview, I want to make sure that I let them introduce
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[rebecca_george]: themselves. I'm bad about remembering this, because if I don't people don't
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[rebecca_george]: know who you, people who don't know who you are will not recognize your
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[rebecca_george]: voice yet. So real quick. will you both introduce yourself and give? Give us
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[rebecca_george]: just a quick rundown of you.
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[caroline_newheiser]: okay, I'm Caroline Newheiser
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[caroline_newheiser]: and my husband has been a pastor for thirty years,
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[caroline_newheiser]: but right now he is a professor at Form Theological Seminary in
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[caroline_newheiser]: Charlotte, North Carolina, where I also work as the Um. assistant
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[caroline_newheiser]: coordinator of Women's Counseling
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[caroline_newheiser]: and I have three sons. They're all grown
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[caroline_newheiser]: and they live scattered for me, nobody is nearby and I have four
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[caroline_newheiser]: grandchildren.
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[rebecca_george]: Wow, that's awesome.
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[cheryl_marshall]: and I'm Cheryl Marshall, and I'm originally from Los Angeles, and we made a
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[cheryl_marshall]: way our way around the country a little bit and eventually end up in Texas.
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[cheryl_marshall]: We make a joke that all roads do lead to Texas, So we're happy to be here.
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[cheryl_marshall]: and uh, I' married to Philip. We've been married for twenty seven years,
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[cheryl_marshall]: and he's from Mississippi. We have three children, a twenty two year old
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[cheryl_marshall]: and two sixteen year olds, and a daughter in law on the way this next year.
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[cheryl_marshall]: So're excited about that.
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[rebecca_george]: Oh, that's awesome.
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[cheryl_marshall]: Yeah, and uh,
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[cheryl_marshall]: we, um,
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[cheryl_marshall]: my husband is a a pastor at our church When the associate pastors, he's
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[cheryl_marshall]: also a professor of biblical languages at Houston Baptist University and at
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[cheryl_marshall]: our church. I'm also the director of women's ministries and I love what I
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[cheryl_marshall]: do there. so that keeps us busy.
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[rebecca_george]: Yeah, I can imagine so. And as I think about the topic of your book and now
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[rebecca_george]: that I know a little bit more about both of you, it makes so much sense why
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[rebecca_george]: this book needed to come into the world right, and why you two were the ones
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[rebecca_george]: to write it, But I'm curious. Have you either of you co written a book with
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[rebecca_george]: somebody else before? Was this the first time thing?
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[cheryl_marshall]: No, this was the first thing
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[caroline_newheiser]: No, it's new for us.
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[cheryl_marshall]: we never.
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[rebecca_george]: Okay? Okay, what was that experience? Like?
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[cheryl_marshall]: We never W. read inen a book, Bo, on our own.
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[cheryl_marshall]: It was. it was good. I'm I'm so thankful for Caroline. We, uh, we've known
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[cheryl_marshall]: each other for many years,
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[cheryl_marshall]: but this book has brought us together in a close friendship and I'm
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[cheryl_marshall]: thankful for that, and um, you know there' a challenge at first. How do we
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[cheryl_marshall]: get two voices into one voice for the book? Um,
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[rebecca_george]: Yeah,
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[cheryl_marshall]: we got a little bit of advice on that and we tinkered around with it and
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[cheryl_marshall]: worked with it a little bit, And eventually we landed where we did and so
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[cheryl_marshall]: thankful for that.
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[caroline_newheiser]: Yeah, I'm grateful for Cheryl, who took some of my thoughts and
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[caroline_newheiser]: experiences and put them into readable language. I give her all the
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[caroline_newheiser]: credit for that,
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[rebecca_george]: Yeah, that's awesome. So as you guys were thinking about this topic, I'm
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[rebecca_george]: curious. This idea of when words matter most again, Ill say that the
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[rebecca_george]: subtitle Speaking truth with grace to those you love. Why was this
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[rebecca_george]: particular topic so important to you?
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[cheryl_marshall]: Well, uh, several years ago I was teaching a Bible study Sunday school
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[cheryl_marshall]: class for the women at our church, and actually was Fundamentals of the
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[cheryl_marshall]: faith, and I taught that for several semesters, and every semester on the
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[cheryl_marshall]: first day I would asked the ladies to introduce themselves and share with
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[cheryl_marshall]: the class why they've chosen to take the class and I would here, at times
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[cheryl_marshall]: women say Well, I'm here because I want to understand the Bible better so
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[cheryl_marshall]: that I can talk to fill in the blank. It could be a sister, a neighbor, a
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[cheryl_marshall]: daughter, a cousin, a friend, but often they would say you know my sister
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[cheryl_marshall]: who is struggling spiritually and I'd like to be able to talk with her
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[cheryl_marshall]: about the scriptures, And so I took that away in my mind and I thought Wow,
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[cheryl_marshall]: you know. that's that's a real need that women have. Uh, every woman is in
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[cheryl_marshall]: of is in multiple relationships, and she cares about the women around her,
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[cheryl_marshall]: And so that's why some of them were there, and then um, some timee later a
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[cheryl_marshall]: woman stopped me in the hall at church and she said that her daughter or
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[cheryl_marshall]: daughter in law recently had a miscarriage, and she wanted to know where
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[cheryl_marshall]: she could go in the scriptures to encourage her daughter in law, because
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[cheryl_marshall]: her daughter in law was afraid that if she ever became pregnant again, that
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[cheryl_marshall]: she would lose that child as well, and so we stood. In the hall and just
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[cheryl_marshall]: opened up the Bible and talked through a few things, and as she walked
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[cheryl_marshall]: away, it was just another example to me of what a need there is for women
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[cheryl_marshall]: to be encouraged and equipped to speak Biblical truth into one another's
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[cheryl_marshall]: lives.
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[rebecca_george]: Yeah,
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[cheryl_marshall]: And that really got me going with the idea and then contact a Caroline, and
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[cheryl_marshall]: we put more of that together. At that point.
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[rebecca_george]: yeah, yeah, I love that.
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[caroline_newheiser]: and I've been counselling
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[caroline_newheiser]: with some the big part of my minister as a pator's wife, but also
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[caroline_newheiser]: having take appointments from people who have needs,
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[caroline_newheiser]: and I've also considered myself one of these older women, the tiightest
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[caroline_newheiser]: two women.
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[rebecca_george]: Yes, absolutely
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[caroline_newheiser]: Yeah, we are supposed to disciple one another, and to teach
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[caroline_newheiser]: these young women what is good
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[caroline_newheiser]: In the end of Titus, to
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[caroline_newheiser]: Inverse Five says that the Word of God may not be reviled,
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[caroline_newheiser]: so the training that happens with an older woman to a younger woman is
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[caroline_newheiser]: so important, and even in a, it says so that an opponent may be put to
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[caroline_newheiser]: shame, having nothing evil to say about us, So we walk in integrity.
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[caroline_newheiser]: We ourselves are helping to disciple people, but the women who are being
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[caroline_newheiser]: discipled at church in their church community in their circles won't be
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[caroline_newheiser]: as needful of counseling that I do, because they'ministering to one
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[caroline_newheiser]: another already
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[caroline_newheiser]: and I really would like to work myself out of a job.
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[rebecca_george]: yeah. yeah, and I wonder. and this is this is important to me.
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[rebecca_george]: Um.
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[rebecca_george]: I. I've had a couple conversations lately, one friend in particular who has
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[rebecca_george]: begun mentoring a younger girl in her life, and when this young lady
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[rebecca_george]: approached her about mentorship,
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[rebecca_george]: she had been turned down by a number of people in her local church, because,
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[rebecca_george]: basically saying that they didn't have the time to invest in mentorship, and
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[rebecca_george]: had this conversation with my friend about how how encouraged she was at the
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[rebecca_george]: opportunity to mentor this young lady, but how discouraged she was frankly
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[rebecca_george]: by by the her friend church right, and and the lack of
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[rebecca_george]: willingness to step into discipleship. And so I'm wondering. this is totally
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[rebecca_george]: off completely
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[rebecca_george]: ript. but I'm curious. are. do you think there may be some reasons why this
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[rebecca_george]: is happening? What are your theories on that? And like, how can we do better
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[rebecca_george]: as the capital? See church?
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[caroline_newheiser]: Well, we took a couple chapters to address. That one is the first
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[caroline_newheiser]: chapter. We is the call to speak, that we are called to serve one
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[caroline_newheiser]: another. Some
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[rebecca_george]: Yeah,
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[caroline_newheiser]: of us don't have that teaching. We, we tend to get a professional class,
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[caroline_newheiser]: clergy or counselor, and then we think of ourselves as not belonging to
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[caroline_newheiser]: that class,
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[caroline_newheiser]: but other people may say well, I can't do it, or I don't know what to
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[caroline_newheiser]: say, Which is why we have our book, and why we talked in our last
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[caroline_newheiser]: chapter about exus. Chapter three and four, Moses complain that he
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[caroline_newheiser]: didn't know what to say and he didn't have training. How is any? how is
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[caroline_newheiser]: he going to have any effect? So we trying to address that. In our book,
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[caroline_newheiser]: I appreciate the question. Good,
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[rebecca_george]: yeah, yeah. and and I, re.
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[cheryl_marshall]: Yes, I think it's a matter of go. Ahe.
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[rebecca_george]: no. I was just going to say I,
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[rebecca_george]: I think time is a reason. I often hear Um
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[rebecca_george]: as as an excuse for discipleship. and I can't help but think just about our
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[rebecca_george]: priorities right. Like what are we putting as a priority in our lives
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[rebecca_george]: Because I can think of, and I'm even convicted by that in my own life of so
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[rebecca_george]: many pockets of my own time that I waste on social media or on things that
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[rebecca_george]: don't matter in light of eternity. When we are called to discipleship and we
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[rebecca_george]: are called to that being a part a big part of our lives. And so, uh, when I
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[rebecca_george]: hear conversations, time tends to be a common denominator. I don't know if
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[rebecca_george]: you guys experience the same, but
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[cheryl_marshall]: Yes, we actually had a a Bible study for some of the ladies this past
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[cheryl_marshall]: summer on the issue of being a mentor and discipline and was discussed. How
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[cheryl_marshall]: often the objection is? I just don't have the time and I do think as you
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[cheryl_marshall]: were saying, it's an issue of priorities and really understanding what the
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[cheryl_marshall]: biblical priorities are for the relationships that God has given us, And we
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[cheryl_marshall]: talked about that also in the book and effusians. For that, um, the pastors
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[cheryl_marshall]: and teachers, they equip the saints for the work of the ministry, and right
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[cheryl_marshall]: after that is the context where we then here speak the truth and love.
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[cheryl_marshall]: and so,
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[cheryl_marshall]: and between those two verses is where we see these goals for relationships,
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[cheryl_marshall]: and we talk about those. Those are um,
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[cheryl_marshall]: the knowledge of the Son of God Christ, like maturity and unity of sound
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[rebecca_george]: Mhm, yeah.
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[cheryl_marshall]: doctrine, or unity of the faith.
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[cheryl_marshall]: And so we delve into that just to help the reader to understand that you've
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[cheryl_marshall]: been placed within the church. for a reason.
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[cheryl_marshall]: Your
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[rebecca_george]: Mhm.
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[cheryl_marshall]: influence in the church is vital, and it's significant to Christ. This is
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[cheryl_marshall]: what Christ wants us to do. He wants us to speak the truth in love to
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[cheryl_marshall]: another for the building up of the church.
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[cheryl_marshall]: And so I think, sometimes as Caroline was saying, there can be this idea.
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[cheryl_marshall]: Though, okay, that's for the super spiritual or the professional
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[caroline_newheiser]: Ss.
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[cheryl_marshall]: people within the church, for them to do the discipline and the mentoring
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[cheryl_marshall]: and the coming alongside.
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[cheryl_marshall]: But really God says here that we are to do that. we are to come alongside
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[cheryl_marshall]: one another, so it may be on a practical level, just being creative
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[cheryl_marshall]: understanding. It may mean just having that younger lady come over and iron
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[cheryl_marshall]: with you, or
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[rebecca_george]: yeah, yeah, yeah,
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[cheryl_marshall]: you know if you're going shopping. Hey, do want to run some errands with
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[cheryl_marshall]: malicious talk while
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[rebecca_george]: Mhm.
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[cheryl_marshall]: we're in the car, or if your a gardener. let's garden together.
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[cheryl_marshall]: Um,
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[cheryl_marshall]: there are
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[cheryl_marshall]: ways for us to
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[caroline_newheiser]: there, for
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[cheryl_marshall]: invite
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[cheryl_marshall]: younger women into our lives to live life on life, and just talk and share
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[rebecca_george]: yeah,
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[cheryl_marshall]: Christ and what we know of his word in life itself,
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[rebecca_george]: yeah, yeah.
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[cheryl_marshall]: And so I think that'd be something to encourage women to think about.
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[cheryl_marshall]: And so I think that'd be something to encourage women to think about.
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[rebecca_george]: that's good. and when I think about some of the most meaningful
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[rebecca_george]: relationships I have had where older women have discipled me,
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[rebecca_george]: it was not this
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[rebecca_george]: you know pristine situation where we sat in a dimly lit coffee shop once a
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[rebecca_george]: week with our bibles open and a certain book that we were going through
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[rebecca_george]: together. Well, that can be an amazing thing, and that that there's nothing
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[rebecca_george]: wrong with that. And that's amazing.
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[rebecca_george]: The couple of women that come to mind,
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[rebecca_george]: we would run together. I would babysit their kids. I would
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[cheryl_marshall]: Mhm.
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[rebecca_george]: come over while they cooked dinner.
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[rebecca_george]: And and they just allowed me to be a part of their life Right, and in that
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[rebecca_george]: came the discipleship. And so I think that that feels freeing to me now that
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[rebecca_george]: I'm in a place of life where I I desire to do that for other younger women
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[rebecca_george]: where it can be a formal thing. And that, and there's nothing wrong with
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[rebecca_george]: that. I think that's a wonderful thing, but it can also be sort of an
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[rebecca_george]: integrating of our lives together. Um, and so I, that comes to mind for me,
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[rebecca_george]: And you mentioned this phrase that we find in Scripture speaking the truth
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[rebecca_george]: and love. And and I know this is sort of a crook, part of the book,
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[rebecca_george]: and
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[rebecca_george]: I'm curious how you would want to encourage listeners be cause. We have a
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[rebecca_george]: hard time with that phrase right, especially right now. I think in the
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[rebecca_george]: current climate that we're living in, so why do you think we have such a
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[rebecca_george]: hard time with this command? and how to what does it look like to live this
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[rebecca_george]: out?
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[caroline_newheiser]: that's a great question because we do want to interact with Scripture
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[caroline_newheiser]: and understand what it means and how to implement.
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[caroline_newheiser]: So the rest of the verse is to speak the truth. In speaking the truth in
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[caroline_newheiser]: love. We are to grow up in every way into him,
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[caroline_newheiser]: who is the head.
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[caroline_newheiser]: It's Aphjians for fifteen, and then it speaks about how the Christ
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[caroline_newheiser]: Christ is P. The body, you know, part of this whole body that we're part
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[caroline_newheiser]: of that. it can build itself up in love. So that concept to do that is
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[caroline_newheiser]: speaking the truth
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[caroline_newheiser]: as we follow Christ
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[caroline_newheiser]: is what we should be doing now. Why do we not do it?
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[caroline_newheiser]: Some of us are afraid,
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[caroline_newheiser]: some of us are people. pleaseeasers like. Oh, well, how could I even
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[caroline_newheiser]: tell her
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[caroline_newheiser]: that she needs to change or that she, for example, is speaking harshly
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[caroline_newheiser]: to her husband and she probably doesn't realize it, or she's um, being
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[caroline_newheiser]: cruel to her kids
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[caroline_newheiser]: in subtle way.
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[rebecca_george]: Yeah, yeah,
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[caroline_newheiser]: Do I say that to her she might not like me anymore, Which that can keep
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[caroline_newheiser]: us from speaking the truth in love. But also we've seen people do it
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[caroline_newheiser]: badly,
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[rebecca_george]: yes,
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[caroline_newheiser]: so we don't want to be those people.
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[caroline_newheiser]: So we may tell ourselves well, I don't think I will because it's
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[caroline_newheiser]: probably going to be viewed badly, or she may ino notice what I have to
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[caroline_newheiser]: say, or be encouraged by what I have to say. Should I not take it well,
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[rebecca_george]: Mhm,
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[caroline_newheiser]: But also,
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[caroline_newheiser]: um, I don't want to be that person.
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[rebecca_george]: yeah,
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[cheryl_marshall]: I, also, another aspect is the truth, aspects speak the truth in love.
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[cheryl_marshall]: I think there are some who struggle with being convinced of the authority
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[cheryl_marshall]: and the sufficiency of Scripture,
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[cheryl_marshall]: to be useful and helpful and needful in the lives of other people around
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[cheryl_marshall]: them.
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[cheryl_marshall]: We are in a society, of course, where bombarded every day with worldly
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[cheryl_marshall]: advice and worldly philosophies, and we are so easily taken into
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[cheryl_marshall]: ideas of living
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[cheryl_marshall]: of um, that are contrary actually to the scriptures. And so I think we as
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[cheryl_marshall]: women, ors, the Church as a whole, need to really
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[cheryl_marshall]: um, adhere to the scriptures. What does the scripture say? What does it
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[cheryl_marshall]: mean and how does that apply to my life? You know, that means we need to be
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[cheryl_marshall]: in the word. We need to be under sound Biblical preaching. We need to be
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[cheryl_marshall]: listening to sound things online and reading what is sound biblally, but
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[cheryl_marshall]: also in our own time of Bible study or Bible study at church, being very
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[cheryl_marshall]: careful with the scriptures, to be faithful to what God's Word says, and
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[cheryl_marshall]: then really
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[cheryl_marshall]: receiving that into our own lives, and then sharing that with others
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[cheryl_marshall]: Because this is gold. This is God's word,
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[cheryl_marshall]: and uh, I think we need to be
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[cheryl_marshall]: committed to the authority and the sufficiency of scripture.
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[rebecca_george]: yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so good. And the question
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[caroline_newheiser]: and the question. The question. I
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[rebecca_george]: beneath the question that I know people listening have in their minds, is
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[rebecca_george]: this
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[rebecca_george]: if I don't feel like I have
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[rebecca_george]: all the answers. What if I'm scared that I will interretpture wrong, or I
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[caroline_newheiser]: feel like Hadle. The answers.
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[rebecca_george]: will
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[rebecca_george]: give the wrong advice or the wrong, feel the blank right. Like we. We all
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[rebecca_george]: know that the the tug of that question.
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[caroline_newheiser]: We all know that the of that question,
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[rebecca_george]: And so
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[caroline_newheiser]: And so as we talk about
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[rebecca_george]: as we talk about discile in this
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[caroline_newheiser]: this,
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[rebecca_george]: conversation, how would you want to
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[rebecca_george]: encourage those women who are maybe feeling a little stuck simply because
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[caroline_newheiser]: you want to encourage those women who are
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[caroline_newheiser]: simply because they don't do at all. You know what
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[rebecca_george]: they don't want to do it wrong. You know what I mean?
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[cheryl_marshall]: Yes, yeah, I think that's a very common concern and a a fear that we have.
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[cheryl_marshall]: I know that Caroline and I even feel like that. at times.
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[rebecca_george]: yeah,
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[cheryl_marshall]: Even still, I mean this, this book is. We didn't write this book because
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[cheryl_marshall]: we've arrived. We've we wrote this book as we are growing also,
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[cheryl_marshall]: and I think there's an underlying attitude that we must always speak with,
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[cheryl_marshall]: And that's an attitude of humility. You know, we don't know all the
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[cheryl_marshall]: answers,
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[cheryl_marshall]: and without not wanting to sound like a cliche, we do know the one who
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[cheryl_marshall]: does. we do know the Lord and we know that his answers aren't his word. And
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[cheryl_marshall]: so I know, there's times that even Caroline and I will say to someone that
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[cheryl_marshall]: we're meeting with. you know. Let's um, I know that's in de scripture. I'm
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[cheryl_marshall]: not sure where it is. Let me find it, you know, and so
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[rebecca_george]: yeah, yeah,
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[cheryl_marshall]: sometimes I might sometimes have a lady sitting across for me and we google
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[cheryl_marshall]: it together. And
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[rebecca_george]: y.
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[cheryl_marshall]: that's fine.
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[cheryl_marshall]: We don't have to be a memory master of the scriptures in order to
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[cheryl_marshall]: faithfully and lovingly step into someone's life.
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[rebecca_george]: yeah.
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[cheryl_marshall]: And one of the things that we have also thought about a lot. Is this that
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[cheryl_marshall]: just to encourage women to speak out of what God is already teaching you,
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[cheryl_marshall]: you may
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[rebecca_george]: Oh, that's good.
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[cheryl_marshall]: not know everything about the Old Testament, the New Testament beginning to
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[cheryl_marshall]: end, but we do know that if you are a believer
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[cheryl_marshall]: that Christ has been teaching you something in your walk again through the
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[cheryl_marshall]: preaching of his word, or your the reading of his word,
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[cheryl_marshall]: there's something that you've been going through that you've been learning
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[cheryl_marshall]: about God's character, and you've been having to think of God's promises,
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[cheryl_marshall]: and sometimes all it is is just turning around and sharing. That with a
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[cheryl_marshall]: loved one
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[cheryl_marshall]: that's genuine, that's real,
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[cheryl_marshall]: and I'm sure Caroline has more to add to all that
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[caroline_newheiser]: well I say aen to all of that,
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[rebecca_george]: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
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[caroline_newheiser]: but you' making me think of you, make me think of the passage, and
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[caroline_newheiser]: Secondinthians, one
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[caroline_newheiser]: three
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[caroline_newheiser]: that
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[caroline_newheiser]: begins, Blessed be the God and Father of Lord Jesus Christ, the Father
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[caroline_newheiser]: of Mercy, God of all comfort, which makes us think who is God.
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[rebecca_george]: Mhm.
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[caroline_newheiser]: But then says who comforts us
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[caroline_newheiser]: in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are
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[caroline_newheiser]: in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted
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[caroline_newheiser]: by God. So we have some chapters in our book, especially dealing with a
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[caroline_newheiser]: woman who is weeing.
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[caroline_newheiser]: How do you comfort her? Well, we can identify in some small way with
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[caroline_newheiser]: these women who have had heartache or disappointment or
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[caroline_newheiser]: death in the family, perhaps, And we can likeles. told us already that
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[caroline_newheiser]: we can comfort them with what God has already used in our lives. That
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[caroline_newheiser]: doesn't mean
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[caroline_newheiser]: that
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[caroline_newheiser]: the appropriate scripture is going to come to mind, But excitement about
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[caroline_newheiser]: the word has an impact
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[rebecca_george]: yeah,
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[caroline_newheiser]: and we teestf to how the word is working. That has an impact,
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[rebecca_george]: that
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[rebecca_george]: so good
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[rebecca_george]: as I was looking through the book. I love the three goals that you tri to
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[rebecca_george]: keep in mind as you were writing the book I'm going to read. Growing in
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[rebecca_george]: Unity, the knowledge of Christ and Christ, like maturity, and I think
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[rebecca_george]: there's one of all of them, and I don't know why, In this particular season
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[rebecca_george]: of our lives that sticks out it growingity, and I'm curious,
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[rebecca_george]: you know, as we
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[rebecca_george]: have just faced so much as a society in the last year and we've gone through
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[rebecca_george]: so much together.
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[rebecca_george]: What does unity look like right now?
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[cheryl_marshall]: well interesting in that passage, the full phrase is growing in the unity
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[cheryl_marshall]: of the faith,
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[cheryl_marshall]: and in that passage the Word Faith does not mean our experiential
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[cheryl_marshall]: response to Christ
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[cheryl_marshall]: In By faith Here in this passage the word faith actually means
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[cheryl_marshall]: sound doctrine. It's the
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[rebecca_george]: Mm,
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[cheryl_marshall]: teaching of scripture. We are to be involved in one another's lives to help
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[cheryl_marshall]: one another grow in the unity of the scriptures of understanding doctrine
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[cheryl_marshall]: and teaching that is in accordance with God's word.
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[cheryl_marshall]: and so as we interact with one another, we can be an encouraging other
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[cheryl_marshall]: women or our family members. Whoever it is that we' interacting with to
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[cheryl_marshall]: know and to understand and to apply the scriptures,
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[cheryl_marshall]: So as believers, what we need to do is we need to be united around what God
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[cheryl_marshall]: says in his work. We need to understand the teaching and the principles in
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[cheryl_marshall]: the doctrine. Now that does mean or that doesn't mean that there might be
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[cheryl_marshall]: different ways that we. I'm sorry putting too many negatives there
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[cheryl_marshall]: together. We may still.
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[cheryl_marshall]: we may still apply things differently,
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[rebecca_george]: yeah, yeah,
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[cheryl_marshall]: and I think we need to be loving and understanding and gracious towards one
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[cheryl_marshall]: another as we in our conscience before God come to conclusion on how some
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[cheryl_marshall]: of those things are applied.
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[cheryl_marshall]: but we can still. There's so much that we can be unified
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[cheryl_marshall]: about from the scripture on principle, and that's where we need to focus
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[cheryl_marshall]: and then be kind and gracious to one another as we
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[cheryl_marshall]: maybe then apply that differently than the next person. We just have to be
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[cheryl_marshall]: very careful not to
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[cheryl_marshall]: um, raise
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[cheryl_marshall]: our applications to the same level of authority as the Scripture itself.
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[rebecca_george]: ay, man.
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[rebecca_george]: That's so good,
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[caroline_newheiser]: very good.
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[rebecca_george]: so so good.
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[caroline_newheiser]: Yeah, I saw that play out yesterday with the lady I was meeting with who
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[caroline_newheiser]: was having a lack of assurance of her own faith, because she grew up in
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[caroline_newheiser]: a face system
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[caroline_newheiser]: that was false.
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[caroline_newheiser]: So she came to me and she
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[caroline_newheiser]: 's true. I don't know if I'm a Christian.
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[caroline_newheiser]: What can I do? Caroline. So this was where we just, I just went through
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[caroline_newheiser]: scripture with her and she had some particular teachings she told me
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[caroline_newheiser]: about,
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[caroline_newheiser]: and
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[caroline_newheiser]: interestingly her own pastor had also dealt with that very same passage
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[caroline_newheiser]: in the service.
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[caroline_newheiser]: So she had some truth coming in, but she needed to be reinforced in the
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[caroline_newheiser]: truth. She neededity in the faith, and it was not just an intellectual
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[caroline_newheiser]: exercise. It was affecting the way she saw herself the way she saw her
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[caroline_newheiser]: parenting, and
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[rebecca_george]: Yeah, Yeah,
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[caroline_newheiser]: she was very insecure about all that, but she needed to be brought back
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[caroline_newheiser]: intoity of the faith.
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[rebecca_george]: I love that phrase reinforcing one another In the truth, I think that's a
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[rebecca_george]: beautiful way to talk aboutity' Good. Well before we go, there's a question
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[rebecca_george]: that I love asking all of our guests. Caroline. We were about to get into
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[rebecca_george]: this before Cheryl joined us earlier, talking about the podcast and the name
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[rebecca_george]: and what that means. So the show is called Radical Radiance, and our heart
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[rebecca_george]: really is to help women see what it looks like and how we can radiate the
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[rebecca_george]: heart of Jesus and our life work our relationships. So we love having
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[rebecca_george]: broad and narrow conversations about what that looks like. And so that's why
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[rebecca_george]: this particular conversation matter so much to me. And so I'm curious for
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[rebecca_george]: both of you, and this is the question asking. What about Jesus makes you
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[rebecca_george]: radiant?
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[cheryl_marshall]: Well, I knew you'd be asking that questions. I gave a little bit of thought
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[cheryl_marshall]: to it be cause. I there so much so much about Jesus, I mean,
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[cheryl_marshall]: you know, I'm a sinner saved by grace, Right and I, I just wanted to read
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[cheryl_marshall]: this one verse
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[cheryl_marshall]: in Affusians, One, three, bless it, be the godenfather of our Lord Chesus,
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[cheryl_marshall]: Christ, to bles with every spiritual blessing in Theavenly places in
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[cheryl_marshall]: Christ. And so, just to say, every day I could think of something new about
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[cheryl_marshall]: the Lord appreciate, but in the last I'll just be honest. In the last
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[cheryl_marshall]: twenty four hours
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[cheryl_marshall]: I have thought of Phlippines, for where says I can do all things through
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[cheryl_marshall]: Chist gives me strength, and that's in the context of talking about
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[cheryl_marshall]: learning to be content and learning to walk with the Lord despite his
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[cheryl_marshall]: circumstances,
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[cheryl_marshall]: And so
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[cheryl_marshall]: I pray that it's the strength of the Lord that helps me today That makes
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[cheryl_marshall]: me, as you sayian, gives me joy
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[cheryl_marshall]: despite my circumstances Through circumstances.
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[caroline_newheiser]: Yeah, it bears thinking about. I think your question is good. We should
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[caroline_newheiser]: each ask one another that
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[caroline_newheiser]: what aspect of God,
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[rebecca_george]: Yeah, Yeah,
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[caroline_newheiser]: Jesus are you radiating?
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[rebecca_george]: well, and and be so the fun piece of this is God. Use this vers, so I'm
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[rebecca_george]: thirty four to really kind of steer me in this directionse five and it says
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[rebecca_george]: those who look to him are radiant and their faces are never covered in
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[rebecca_george]: shame. And so I love
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[rebecca_george]: hearing so many responses because they end up being theirs themes right. And
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[rebecca_george]: and then there's these really personal things where somebody will be like.
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[rebecca_george]: It's this thing about God like that just is blowing me away right now, you
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[rebecca_george]: know, And and then I've interviewed people multiple times because they'll
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[rebecca_george]: have another book come out right and they have a different answer because
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[rebecca_george]: they're in a different place with their walk with the Lord And so I think
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[rebecca_george]: it's always changing. It's always growing. and so Yeah, that's my favorite
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[rebecca_george]: question.
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[caroline_newheiser]: Well, My answer
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[caroline_newheiser]: is to think about trusting the Lord.
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[caroline_newheiser]: Then how that keeps me from getting all agitated about people changing
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[caroline_newheiser]: or not changing or taking my scriptural advice or not taking my advice
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[caroline_newheiser]: or bigger picture issues that people are anxious about. But Jesus
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[caroline_newheiser]: entrusted himself first Peter, too. no, yeah, first Peter. two, twenty
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[caroline_newheiser]: three, He continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.
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[caroline_newheiser]: So if we intrust have that trusting attitude that Jesus had,
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[caroline_newheiser]: like God is in charge of all of this, it keeps me from
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[caroline_newheiser]: getting anxious,
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[caroline_newheiser]: and hopefully to show the radiance that Christ did in his life enrusted
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[caroline_newheiser]: himself, and it helped him to endure,
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[rebecca_george]: Yeah,
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[rebecca_george]: so good, so good. Well, I am so grateful for ladies. I love how rooted in
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[rebecca_george]: scripture this conversation was and I know that your book is the same and I
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[rebecca_george]: value that so much. I'm just grateful for both of your voices. I' going to
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[rebecca_george]: say the name of the book one more time. It's called When words matter, most,
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[rebecca_george]: speaking truth with grace to those you love. So before we go where can
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[rebecca_george]: people find you? Grab the book all the
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[rebecca_george]: thingse
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[cheryl_marshall]: Well, I'm online at Cheryl Marshall Dot Com and on Instram underscore,
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00:29:20,624 --> 00:29:25,504
[cheryl_marshall]: Cheryl Marshall, And you can get the book at any of your favorite
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[cheryl_marshall]: booksellers online. wherever over there,
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[caroline_newheiser]: And I have a webite Carolline Newheiser Dot com, which gives some of my
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[caroline_newheiser]: blogs that I've been in involved with
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[caroline_newheiser]: other things, Bi information, all the rest,
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[rebecca_george]: awesome good deal. I am so grateful for your ladies, and I just want to say
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[rebecca_george]: more time how thankful I am to have you today.
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[cheryl_marshall]: Thank you.
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[caroline_newheiser]: thank you.
