Episode 175. 12 Books of Christmas Day 12: Forgiving Paris with Karen Kingsbury
Karen. I'm so thrilled to be with you. Thank you so much for. Thank you for having me. And then looking forward to this, I know me too. I told you before we hit record, but I want my people to hear this as well. I texted my high school, best friend, who I've not talked to in a very long time, two or three days ago.
And I told her, I said, you will never. If I get to talk to you and only you, apart from my mom only, you will understand how excited I am to sit down and chat with one of my favorite authors. And so it's just so fun to get to know you. I read your books all throughout my high school, probably late middle school through my high school years.
That was when like the Baxter, you were pumping out the Baxter book. Left and right. And so I just happened to be kind of in the right the right years for that. And I loved that series and which has now went on to become. They've done film with it, which is just so cool. So I, we have so much to talk about, and I'm just so excited to get to know you.
But before we get into the book, we have this episode releasing as a part of our 12 books of Christmas series, which. It was just feels so fitting to me to have you be a part of that, because I just feel like you have to love Christmas and I love Christmas. So we get to talk Christmas a few minutes and I love starting out by asking, what did Christmas look like for you when you were.
Well, you know, my dad and mom did not have a lot. And I think that actually makes it more special sometimes. You know, my, my dad had, he worked three jobs. We had five kids, eight years between us. So there were just always a lot going on. And my mom was very busy with the kids, but my, uh, my dad was just a firm believer in.
The magical part of Christmas, you know, and we weren't, we, I mean, we definitely had a faith and we talked about Jesus. It was more of that. I think he focused more, a little bit like on just the magical side of things. And so you'd pick up on Christmas morning and there was all the, you know, whereas, you know, some people might just pretend about Santa and for us, it was like, you could do.
You know, Rangers hopes on the roof in the middle of the night sort of thing, but it was really sweet and precious, and my parents did everything they could to make it so magical, you know, the new bikes and new dolls and things like that. So it was, it was really sweet and we kept a lot of that for our kids when they were.
And just shifted a little bit, you know, cause we were just, we were raising them with just a stronger sense of let's really focus on the birth of Jesus, but it was, it was the magical part remains. That's still such a fun part. I can remember my mom and I'm making cookies for Santa so many years when I was young and she would have my dad.
Right at like a note from Santa, but he couldn't do it like in his handwriting or it would be obvious. Right. And so he would try to like make up sort of this other handwriting, cursive that was supposed to be Santa. And then we would pour a glass of milk and he would leave like the empty glass of milk on the kitchen table.
There were just so many, like very purposeful things that he would do. So it would seem like it was really Santa. So I get that and I love that. And those are fun, fun memories too. Yeah. I love that. Like our oldest son, he does that still he'll be like from the kids, you know, like they're all, but like from the kids, like a little note and, um, it's a sweet he'll, he'll always include like a Bible verse.
So is this, it's like such a sweet mix of the two weeks. Yeah. I love that. So I'm curious when you think about Christmas, is there something food-wise that you make around the holidays that you think, okay, Christmas would not be complete without this being on my dinner table? Well, we, there are a couple of different things.
One would be the jello salad and it's so simple, but it's red and white six strawberry jello, and then a cream cheese layer. And then the bottom line is, feels like a cross, but it's made a pretzels and, you know, honey and butter all smashed together. And it's love that. And then of course, Christmas cookies and we do, my mom comes, you know, she's Canadian and there's more of a British flare, but it's the British tea cookies.
I think they're called. We always called them snowball, you know, rolled in the sugar and all that. I think it probably that's when they know it's Christmas time. When we start making those high, I love that. Speaking of strawberry pretzels, that combination, I heard rumor that Jenny's ice cream or you Jeni's ice cream.
No. I'm talking about my family, huge fans. We have one Perez. Okay. Yeah, because you're in Nashville, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Last time I went to Nashville. I stopped and got some is so good, but I heard rumor that, and I want to say it was like a Dolly Parton, like a, like a Dolly Parton flavor. And she had done a strawberry pretzel salad.
I swear. I know, and I don't, I don't live near a Jenny's. And so I was so sad, but I saw somebody posted on their Instagram stories about it, and that just sounded like the most delightful thing of my life. So I feel like we need to find a site. That's awesome. Well, I love that. I love that type of salad too, so I can see why that's, that's a staple.
Um, I love talking Christmas and I love, I love that, but we are here to talk about your new book, which I'm so excited about. It's called forgiving Paris. Karen, the covers. Gorgeous. It's so beautiful. I'm so excited about it. And I want to talk through this a little bit. What listeners may not know is, um, in the storyline of forgiving Paris is a very famous Baxter girl, Ashley, um, which is so, which is so fun.
And you say, which I love that you don't have to have read the Baxter story to be able to read for getting Paris, which is great. So I'm just curious, what's it been like for you to carry readers on such a long journey with this. Well, it's funny. I, it just is like a real journey for me. And people will say to me, I'll go do an event and people will be in line and we'll be chatting one after another of these people who are so precious and they'll be like, okay, well, what are they doing?
Like, what are the Baxter's doing this week? And the crazy thing Rebecca is, I know the answer I can tell you. I can see that. In my head and in my heart. So when it came time to telling the story of what actually happened to Ashley Baxter in Paris, it was like that story was already there and I needed to get, I got away to a local little spot where I can get away to write.
And in five or six days, really the bulk of the story was just like, I just downloaded it from my heart on that page. Wow. That's so cool. I'm wondering, okay. I'm working on my first book. So I'm a major amateur. Does that happen often for you? Do they download that quickly or was this a rare. If I give myself the time, then it's pretty quick.
So it's like, it depends, I've got a lot of other things going on and, you know, film, we have the, you were seeing movement running out of our house. We have signature events that we do. So there's a lot of other fun things going on. And if I don't carve away time, it could take me months and months to get to that same place.
But if I just step aside then yeah, I would say, you know, I can get a lot done in a week. Yeah, that's awesome. I, which of course I'm not writing fiction. I'm writing, not fiction, but I have found this is a very full season of life for me, but I have gotten a couple of times in the writing of this first manuscript to a place where.
I'll just, I'll like sneak away and write like 500 words, you know, every couple of business days. And so I feel like I'm not making that much progress, but then last week I went and visited my family up in Tennessee. And when I got back, I wrote, I think it was on maybe Tuesday of this week. And I cranked out like 2000 words.
Like it was nothing. And I think it was because I had been away from it for a couple of weeks. And I think my mind was just coming to it refresh. So yes. Uh, that's just part of it. I'm just figuring it out for me. I know everybody has their, their own process, but that's just so interesting to hear about.
And you know, when I play, I would say I I'm still figuring it out. I get this a better you, right. Because it's another season. And in that season, Well, gosh, I used to just go into my bedroom and sit in that chair and everything just came. And then now I'm like, oh, I have to go away to this little studio and right.
Or sometimes I fly somewhere and that's been a little while since I'd done that because I've got kids and grandkids now, and I'd rather be here close, but it don't feel bad if you're still figuring it out. That's normal. Yeah. Yeah. Is there like a favorite place that you have to write that just feels like maybe really sacred to you?
Well, there is now. So I, I went ahead and rented a space. So I have like a studio where I can go and write. And it's just really beautiful. There's no, um, there's windows, there's no TV or anything there. It's just, it feels set apart, like sort of, you know, carved out of time, even really. And I just meet Lord there and he gives me the stories so that.
Um, for the last couple of books, I've been able to do that. And it seems to really help, like I can feel better about not I'm like, do I take, I might be working on a lot of other things when I'm actually technically on deadline, but if I can get there and just be there even for a week, then I get a lot of, yeah.
I love that. I love that. Well, as I was reading through just some of the promotional material for forgiving Paris, you know, I'm noticing you cover some really serious ground in this story. Things like drug addiction and suicide. And I'm wondering, what was it like for you and why maybe was it important to you to write fiction that that covers these things?
Well, you know, Rebecca in this current season of life that we are in and I'm not discouraged by it because though there's so many things going on so much to divide us so many things to distract us and discourage us. But I believe truly that God chose us to be here for a time, such a time as this is our time.
So. It's our chance to shine, but it's also our chance to be honest with what is going on and to show that people are not alone. If they, you know, are in suburban America and they're married and they go to church and everything's, you know, they have their minivan, but they have somebody in their family.
Who's struggling with heroin addiction. That's not strange and unusual, and it's not a stigma. It's a real situation that needs help and hope. And, uh, there's a minor care. And forgetting Paris who her, and it really all stems. It kind of, this is all part of the flashback and the time going back for Ashley, because what ha it's something that Landon says, and he sets it up at the beginning where he says, I've been reading in the Bible in mark chapter four and.
There's a, there's a scene that we are familiar with from the gospels where Jesus has caught me in a storm, but in this particular account in mark four, um, it talks about how there were other boats and some versions say other little boats on the sea that day. So as the, as the disciples were in their worst, And as Jesus spoke peace and healing and calm over that storm, other little boats were affected as well.
They were caught up in a storm and they also received a calm storm because of what happened with the disciples. So I, Joe Landon brings that to Ashley and I love that part. And he says, when we go back and she's really not even wanting to go back, but when we go back to Paris and Ashley's got this big art show, and in theory, it should be a happy time, but he reminds her look for the little boats, look for the thing.
That God did that you weren't on. You're unaware of, but maybe this time around, they will come to light. And you'll see that even though you were going through your hardest time, as you were coming out of that, the calm that God brought you, he was bringing something like that to someone else because of your storm.
So it sets up this whole adventure where she's able to see. These sorts of redemptive moments and people in the story from her past and Mia, a former heroin addict is one of those. Okay. Wow. That whole idea with the boats is just, it's just amazing. And I think back to the last year and a half, 18 months of our lives, and that feels so true of the last year and a half, doesn't it like?
I think God has made me more aware. Of what may be previously felt insignificant or minor? Um, just moments in our lives. Like I can remember for the first time walking in the grocery store, in the middle of the pandemic and realizing like that same girl at the checkout counter, she checks me out every single time I come here and I.
I don't know her name. I don't know if she knows the Lord. All I know is I spend time with her couple of times a week when she's checking out my groceries and she's probably had a rough day helping people try to find toilet paper and all of the things that we were just trying to do to make it at that point.
And, and God used her to really make me aware of. Man, Rebecca, don't be so busy and so consumed with your life that you don't see me at work around you and even the smallest ways. And so, I don't know, that's just really been on my heart in the last year or so. And I, I, I can see how maybe God spoke that to you, especially after what we've been through over the last year and a half.
Cause that feels really. Yeah. In fact, um, you know, even just before the pandemic kit, my husband and I had gone to a restaurant at O'Hare airport in Chicago on tour, just doing your usual thing and this waiter, his name's Henry, and he was an older man and an incredible waiter did a phenomenal job. But when he was off the floor, I could see him like.
You know, out of what he thought was out of any kind of I shot. And yet I could see him in the weight of the world, settling on his shoulders. He was like, something was wrong with Henry. And I had no way, he had a busy table. I had busy day and there was no way in that single moment. Like when you look at it, all of my life, every step in turn and decision, everything led to that single moment.
Same with Henry all of his life, every job, every move, every, it all led to the single moment where our lives intersected and I was not. For Henry, I didn't have any way to tell him about Jesus. And so I came home and, and God just gave me this movement called you were seen. And so you can go to, you were seen.com to find out more about it, but it's cards just like business cards and they say you were seen on them.
And then there's a 24 7 prayer line on the back and a QR code, which takes you to, you were seen.com. We link with the Billy Graham evangelistic association. And their plan for salvation, their help links. So in a single car, And ideally what we're doing is being the most thankful people in the middle of this craziness and the most generous people.
So with your big tip and with your kind words, I can just take this. I can, you know, maybe you're going to give a bigger tip than usual or give a tip to a cashier, but it doesn't usually get one, Hey, get a cup of coffee on me and just know you were seen by me today, but you are seen by God every day and I'm telling you.
Rebecca, it changes your life to be able to go around and know, Lord, give me the divine appointments. Intersect. My life was somebody I'm going to like your cashier. Um, intersect my life with that person. And let me let, let me pass along to them. Something that actually might lead them to salvation. That's beautiful.
Karen and I I'm wondering, you know, that we have people listening who maybe they had a moment like you had at that restaurant and they feel a prompting from God. To do something about it. Maybe they didn't feel ready for whatever it was. How would you want to encourage them as they are moving forward past a moment like that?
Like how did, how did God meet you in that moment where you decided, okay, next time I want to be ready and I'm going to be ready. So how would you encourage them to take that step before. Well, you know why? I think sometimes we are under the impression that only missionaries tell people about Jesus. He actually, you know, his marriage in Matthew 28, he asked us love, God, love people, make disciples.
Like it is all of our job to be looking for ways to share the love and truth and salvation of Jesus, many people, you know, our, our field Filana quit. Like how do I. Do this, how do I take that moment? We've with you, we're seeing movement. I feel like we've made it easy. Yeah, no theology needed. Yeah, the single it's not a trouble, you know, it doesn't, it really invites you in.
And I always say there's some great encouragement to check out the website. The website really affirms. Yeah, like you were seeing because you're valuable and you're important. You matter, you were working hard at a time when not everybody's working hard. And so thank you so much. And not only that, but God sees you and then it moves into, you know, do you, do you know, what's going to happen at the end of life?
Like it's, it's very conversationally written. And feels like the coffee shop experience almost, um, further cuts. Anyway, I would suggest if anyone else is looking for that true God directed purpose and meaning in their life, go to you. We're seeing that come and pick up a pack of cards or visit hobby lobby.
They're carrying them. That's so. So the CEO of hobby lobby, Steve green, we went out and met with him and I said, you know, there's nothing else like this, that there were, I wouldn't, if I'm right, I don't sure I don't do this. You know, this is my thing, but I love people and I know they need Jesus and. You know, CA can you carry these cards and let people have a chance to have this experience?
And so they're carrying them and all their 950 hobby lobby. That is amazing. I love that so much. Oh, that's so cool. Thank you for sharing that. That was totally off script. And I love when that happens. So I love that our people get to know about that. And you know, we've talked about this a little bit. But I love that you weave this into the book.
Life is not always neat and tidy this season of our lives. I don't think any of us would define it as neat and tidy. And I want to hear, you know, why was it important that you wanted to write this story where just because maybe somebody knows and believes in God and would call themselves a believer that doesn't mean our lives will be totally.
Void of problems and, and things like that. Um, and that things don't always just like work themselves out. Like why, why was it important that you, that you write about this from sort of a gospel centered perspective and a biblical perspective, even in like the hard stuff, does that make sense? Yeah, definitely.
You know, when you look at one of the, one of the stories we see Jesus take part in, in scripture is the woman caught in adultery and she's, you know, thrown out into the middle of the dusty street. And Jesus is the only one who takes her side. I mean, he puts himself in harm's way because they're new. They have a lot of rocks they're ready.
Which is what they legally can do at the time. And Jesus takes up her cause. And I feel like, you know, you may not have had an affair with a married man the way Ashley did when she was 19. And she made that terrible mistake, terrible decision. And she regrets it still. Yeah. But you maybe has a different Paris, right?
So maybe your parents is something you said that you wish. Said, and you feel like you can't go back and fix it or something you did different, but you know that you look back and think if I only hadn't said that if I only hadn't done that, then my life would be different. Well, the Lord invites us into a place of not just forgiveness for what we did.
Ashley has done that. Yeah. She's already gone to the Lord and she's already received forgiveness for what happened in Paris. What she hasn't done is forgiven herself. And in our cancel culture, our critical divided cancel culture times. We're terrified to make a mistake. Any mistake you might make, whether it's, you might, if you say it on social media and you make a mistake, you're done.
Yeah. Canceled. And God is the God of grace and second chances. So it was really important. I felt to bring this story, which has always been in my heart, um, but to bring it out now so that people can find, they may not find it on social media, I'm going to pretty be pretty sure they won't find it there.
They can find great. Forgiveness and freedom in Jesus and in doing so they can forgive themselves and it doesn't matter what anybody else. Yeah. That's so good. That's so good. I love that. That comes through in the book. And you know, one of the things that when I think about some of my favorite fiction that I've ever read, and I would include you in that list.
Um, you know, a lot of times when you talk to authors, which we do, right, when we do things like podcasts, you find. You know the message of this book, whether it was fiction or not. Nonfiction typically comes from a really deep place within us. Like I know there were the book I'm working on. It feels like the, what I've heard people call, like if I got hit by a bus and I never got to write another book, this would be the book I would want to write because it feels so true to how maybe God's done a work in me.
I wonder how true does that feel for you in fiction? Like how much of Karen. Is it within the stories of your books? Is that a fair. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think always a piece of my heart for sure. I, um, I love Ashley. I've always loved her, so I didn't become a believer. I mean, I believed in God, but I didn't come.
I re person with a relationship with Jesus, a saving relationship with him until. Um, I was in my mid twenties and I wasn't like, I would've considered myself a pretty good person for that. But knowing, I mean, I was not in a pretty good category. I just was living my life in Los Angeles and writing for the Los Angeles times.
I was a sports writer and, you know, driving around in my little convertible Volkswagen, my red books flag, and I just had my own rules on what life should be like, you know, as long as you love somebody, you could sleep with them or whatever, whatever it would be. You know, you ha I had a little, like pretty good girl rules kinda thing.
Um, and I think when I came to Jesus, it was the shocking realization of that. I was no, where I wasn't good or good enough, I needed Jesus and that he so kindly lovingly like a father took me in and, and gave me full grace and forgiveness. And I think it's my heart's desire to share that with other people.
There are a lot of people, maybe they're believers, maybe they're not, oh, I have a huge percentage of my readers more than 50% pick up the book and don't claim to have any faith really, which is that's so cool. And so cool. Right? So I have a, may I have a secular publisher and the books are sold and security places and airports and whatnot.
So to know that I have the privilege to be able to share with someone else what I received, I think in forgiving Paris in this book, that that was a call of my heart. Whereas like my last book, a distant shore, it was, Hey, there's a problem with sex trafficking with human Trevor. Yeah. And there are people who give their lives to fight that cause, and I wanted to shed a light on that.
Wasn't anything I personally had gone through, but just an issue of our day that to shed a light on we're getting Paris is an issue of the heart and we all have a Paris, something we need to really take before the Lord defined freedom. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. I love that. I love that. So. Forgiving Paris will be out in the world by the time people listen to this, so they can go grab a copy of it, which is so great.
And we'll be giving away a copy of it and our giveaway for the 12 books of Christmas, which is so fun. So one of our people listening will win a copy. But apart from that, Karen coming up in your life, in your work, what are you excited about that you can tell us about, um, that you're looking forward to in the coming months?
Yes. Well, so many things, Rebecca tell you, God is so good. Um, in the spring I have a book coming out called the backstreets of all things like after all this time and all these books, what it is is a prequel. And so, whereas like, yes. Right. I love it. So the. Yeah, so, okay. Whereas we started an already kind of Carrie and Tim were having their struggles and the first book redemption and, um, and that's, uh, kind of where we meet Carrie is in a time of crisis, but didn't, she have some morning before she ever even married Tim.
So her season of getting married to Tim. You know, Ashley kind of believing that Landon shouldn't be in her life. Like just the, kind of what sets up all of that, that happens in the Baxters and that book comes out in the spring and it's already written in. I'm so excited about it. That's amazing. I cannot wait.
That's so cool. Well, I know super fun. And then I have a book called just once and if you love the Baxter's again, you don't have to rent the Baxters. These are all. Perfect starting places, but what coming out in the fall of 22 called just once and it is the love story of herbal and hay. So it's a world war two love story.
Herbal was one of the Alzheimer's patients that Ashley helped at sunset Hills adult care home. When you were reading the early books about the backstory. So you don't have to know that, but it's the story. It's, you know, it's my version of the. I mean, yeah, Hank and river and getting a diagnosis of Alzheimer's and deciding that they're going to.
Some video story pieces of their life when they first met and how their story played out during the time of world war II. So my first kind of, really more of a historical piece and that will be in the fall. Ah, that's so fun. Oh, I can't wait. Karen. That's amazing. Well, this has been just a total. For me, I have looked up to you for so long.
I have been reading your work for so long. I've just loved getting to know you. I'm so excited about forgiving Paris being out in the world. And I have my very own copy that I now feel like it's cool enough outside for me to enjoy like the evenings on our back porch reading fiction, which I haven't done in a long time, because in Mississippi it has been hot for six months.
So I've been telling myself that now, I, that is one thing I really enjoy in the fall, so I can't wait to read it. I'm so excited. And I just want to say a big thank you for your time. Oh, thank you so much for having me and I'm sure we'll have another talk because the Baxters, we have three seasons of the Baxter's filmed and in the can and they should debut next year, too.
So lots of, okay, well, we'll just, we will need to remind people of that. So we'll have another chat then. I love that. Okay. Sounds good. You have a beautiful Christmas, Rebecca. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right, I'll do a quick pause and then we knock out these last few questions. Okay, cool.
Karen, I have loved having you today. I am so excited about forgiving Paris. That is going to be well it's it's already in the world when people listen to this, which is so fun, and I'm excited to do a little bonus round with you for our Patrion subscribers. So our first question is what is one of the best pieces of advice that you've ever gotten?
It was something I read from Elizabeth Elliot. So she's the famous missionary's wife. And she, herself is famous, has lots of books, but she wrote something very simple that has helped me as we raised six kids. And I don't remember writing books, honestly, Rebecca, during that time, I just remember raising children, which is such a gift from God.
But she said, when you feeling life is out of control and you don't know where to get a handle on it. Just do the next thing and do it well, don't let the rest crowd in, which is really basically a summary of what Jesus said when he said, you know, today has enough worry of its own. Don't worry about tomorrow, but that has really helped free me up to like, I have a lot to do, but I'm talking to you, Rebecca, and this is my moment and this is what we get.
So this is, um, a moment I'll put everything into that's such good advice, level, Elisabeth, Elliot. What is a book that you've read lately that you want people to know? Well, it's a book I've read before, but, uh, it's called mere Christianity, C S Lewis, and I'm reading it again. It's like find chocolate or something where you have to savor it.
There's just so much. And I think here was a man who at one point, you know, it was an atheist and then God just gave him this beautiful wisdom and the ability to convey it. I think if you are looking for a way to desktop your faith, if it, if it's become kind of complacent, then I would pick up a copy of mere Christianity.
So good. Such a good book. Okay. This is a personality question. If you were to have like a go-to karaoke song, when you're like alone in your car, what would. Probably a classic. One of my favorites would be ain't no mountain high enough as love. That's like, just so good. I'm just like, I can sing this in the car for sure.
In the car with the windows up. Um, and then my son, Tyler Kent, my son, Tyler Russell. It has some new music out and he has a brand new EAP called go there. And I find myself, he thinks I'm just, you know, cause I'm his mom, but he actually wrote the theme song for the Baxter. So when it comes out, you'll hear this song of that.
So family and he wrote it. Yeah. He sings it. So I love his work. So if you haven't listened to Tyler Russell, go to. That's awesome. Oh, I can't wait to check them out. That's amazing. Okay. What is something this could be deepen spiritual or just simple that you are loving in this season of life that you want people to know.
Um, I mean, my amazing grand boys, I got a video yesterday. Uh, Kelsey, my daughter, she and her husband, Kyle had been married nine years. They have three little boys who are six, three and one right now, the six year old just turned six and they were getting over colds and what not, not COVID, but just colds.
Cause that's still a thing and they put praise music on and they put it on and then they, that music was sort of low in the background. I took a video of the kids. The kids all had their like hands raised, even the baby. And they had the six year old for his birthday. He got a captain America action figure and the captain America's hands were raised.
Rebecca had him situated, like everybody's praising Jesus in the home. And I thought, you know, that that's the bar right there. And the answer to prayers, we prayed way before we even had Kelsey. That our family would be a family that the legacy is one of faith and actual really relying on Jesus. Oh, I love that so much, so much.
That's so beautiful. So fun. Okay. Who has been one of the most influential people in your life?
I will need to say and want to say my husband Donald. Um, I met him at a health club in Los Angeles and my mid twenties. I thought he was very cute. He came over and talked to me. We had a few friends in common, so it didn't seem that strange. And after a couple hours, he asked me out on a date, um, he asked me one caveat, can I please bring my.
Okay, Rebecca. I thought he was the strangest person I had ever met this LA yeah. It's like being on a bike. I didn't know what he was or what kind of thing this was. He was wanting to bring, but he brought the Bible. He showed me, we read Philippians. I was not discerning to it. Couldn't wait to get to the date, pass the Bible.
And that went on for three months. And then one day I was standing with him and we were talking about the Bible much to my sugar and, and I got sick of it. And I took his beautiful highlighted, underlined Bible. Threw it on the ground and broken in half. And I knew for sure in that moment that like, I'm going to be on the first one on the downstair case.
Cause I knew you can't do that. Yeah. I was definitely blind. So I bought a Bible to prove him wrong on some of my man-made beliefs. And I could sat in, I literally got out to the parking lot. Didn't didn't even start my car before I like checked out the Bible. What does it really saying? Yeah. And God made it so clear.
And I could hear the Lord saying you can either fall away with all your manmade beliefs or grab onto me and never let go. And I grabbed on and never let go. The guy forgave me, we've been married 33 years. He's been with me through all the highs and lows of raising a family. All the beautiful moments are all intertwined with Donald and I'm thankful and will be today.
I take my last breath. I'm just so thankful for him. That's amazing. I love that story. So much. Well, one of the, one of my favorite questions to ask right now kind of has to do with the theme of our podcast and it's called radical radiance. And God kept leading me back to this passage in Psalms it's Psalm 34 5.
It says those who look to him are radiant and their faces are never covered in shame. I love that verse and what it means to me. And I'm curious, Karen, when you think about that, I wonder what about Jesus makes you radiant?
His, um, the way he loves us as a father, I feel like his child, it doesn't matter, you know, how the years stack up and the calendar pages keep turning, but I still feel like a little girl with God that, you know, sometimes when I'm talking to a group of women, I'll say you think. Unfortunately, some of you might think that when Jesus, if you'd walked into the room and came up on stage and brought you up with him and looked at you face to face, that the first thing he would do is point a finger and say, I know what you did.
I know what you think. And I'm here to tell you what you're, that you're wrong about that, whatever, um, that isn't Jesus, Jesus picture. Picture the soldier coming back from war. And that little girl, seeing her daddy across a football field and running to him and him running to her and taking her in his arms and holding under her.
That is Jesus. And that makes me rating. I love that. That's beautiful, Karen. Well, I am so excited to again, have forgiving Paris to be a part of our 12 books of Christmas. I just love you. I love your work and I'm just so grateful to have you today. Thank you for being with me. Thank you Rebecca so much.
