Episode 147. Fighting Words with Ellie Holcomb

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Unedited Transcript

Ellie. Thank you so much for being on the show today. I'm just so beyond thrilled to have you. I'm so glad to be here and thanks for letting me come on and hang out. This is going to be so fun. Okay. There's just so much that we have to talk about because you've been in my life long before we have been friends, which started like two minutes ago, but I.

It is just such a treat to talk to you because I look back at the last, I mean, gosh, probably decade of my life. And when I, even this morning, I was looking at your past albums and I can almost tie seasons of my life to your work, which is really cool. Like when I look back at songs and, and even an album and, um, I'm so excited to talk about canyon, your new album and your devotional.

We just, we have a lot of ground to cover, but it's just so fun to get to connect with you and chat after like you been in my earbuds for so many years. It's so fun. Oh, I love that. Well, thanks for listening. I always feels like the coolest, I mean, I'm this we're all that way. Right? There's music. It's kind of like the soundtrack to our lives and I just feel.

Continually humbled that, that I don't to kind of sing alongside people. Some of whom I know. And then a lot of whom I hadn't gotten to meet yet, so yeah. Yeah. That's so fun. Okay. I have to hear all about the ride. I died when I heard that you were headlining the Ryman and here's what you also, I know, right?

Yeah. So I'm a Tennessee girl. I lived in Tennessee my entire life until I married my husband a couple of years ago. We're doing ministry down here in south Mississippi. And so that was so sweet to me. And I was like, man, I have to ask her, like, what was it like for your heart to do that? To be there in that space after like so many years being in this industry and just being a Nashville, like tell me all about.

Yeah, it, well, I, when I found out, I don't think I ever would have like actively pursued that on my own. Cause it just is such a huge deal. I played there a ton, which is that in and of itself is crazy. But with my husband's fan, with other, as a guest artist on all kinds of things, it is it oddly is. Um, I really like, it almost feels like home, like an extension of home for us in Nashville.

Cause we're there quite often for the Opry or play them at fringe shows or whether it's our own. But I never dreamed in a million years that I would ever play there. And my story with the Ryman, I mean, obviously growing up, I like as a kid, just it's the birthplace of country music. There's, it's such a legendary special room, but drew and I's first date was at the run.

Auditorium. And it was during that day, we were, we were at a Patty Griffin concert and over the course of that concert, I went from like, Oh, this is like my best girlfriend. This is not going to work out like walking in. I was like, this is such a bummer. He's such a great guy, but it's just not like that with us.

By the end of the show, I was like, I'm going to spend the rest of my life. Like with this top, like I knew that I was one of my cool. So never dreamed in 1 million years that we would end up playing mirror one day. Um, and then especially, especially never during the, I would headline there. So I was so humbled.

Oh. And then all of our kids, because we played them. Over the course of the years, all of our kids have slept in one of the showers backstage in the green rooms and a pack and play while we've played. They've stood side stage in pajamas and cowboy boots. River's our third took his first steps backstage at the Ryman.

So. For me to get to play the songs that I've been writing really felt like the integration of everything that God has just given to our family and our kids came out and sang. And I, and then all of these people, a lot of times I'm doing shows. Like women's conferences and, um, fundraisers. I don't tour traditionally that often, mainly because I want to be home with my babies.

So, and I do that with some. And so just for us to do like life work balance, I don't tour like traditionally very often. And so. It was just the, it was the sweetest gift to see all these people in that room who kind of like, you were just sharing her, Becca have led these songs. Like God's just done what he wanted to do with my music.

And I just felt like I was looking at a picture of a little glimpse of it. Yeah. Overwhelmingly, um, humbling. Beautiful. And I think too, the Ryman's one of my favorite rooms. To sing in and, and namely to get the whole crowd singing. And, um, and so we ended the night with how great thou art was. We were all singing on a canyon and then came back out and saying how great the art.

And I think in the wake of a year, A year and a half of just a lot of isolation, I think, to hear that many people's voices coming together and singing a song of hope, even in a time that still has a lot of uncertainty in it. Um, yeah. I'll never forget it. It was one of them. It was nice. Yeah. That's so cool.

I love that so much. So last Saturday night, I guess it was Saturday. Yeah. Before. Hurricane Ida came for Louisiana and Mississippi. My, some friends of ours had an extra ticket or a pair of tickets to go see Harry Connick Jr. And he was playing up in Jackson, which is close to where we live and, and I'd never seen him before.

It was the, it was the sweetest concert probably because I haven't been to a concert in a year and a half, but it was just, it was that much more special and in the same way, So he has his new album. I think it's called a loan in my faith and he covers a lot of hymns and things like that. And so towards the end of the concert, he played through a bunch of those and in the, in a very similar way, he, so he's saying how great though are towards the end of the concert.

And it was just so sweet to just declare those words, like over our city and over our state in the, even in the midst of what we were about to experience throughout a really bad storm. And, but just like declaring those truths about God that are true. Despite a hurricane, despite civil unrest, despite what's going on in our country right now, it just blessed my heart so much.

So I can only imagine putting myself in your shoes and, and doing that at the Ryman had to be so special for you. And. There's something I think about us. I just love that, which by the way, you're on a podcast right now. So I'm guessing you're okay. In the wake of the storm praise God. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes.

And you have electricity. That's amazing.

I read it, a million people over a million people without power. And I'm like, that is, uh, we got hit by the tornado last year and, and didn't have power throw a week. And that is a, I didn't realize how much I relied on power, but man, that's like, no, that's no small thing. So anyway, I think there is something beautiful about singing in the midst of.

The storm in the midst of the certainly. And I think God knows that it's good for us, which, you know, I mean the first song ever recorded in the Bible and this goes back to red sea road, which I did not know this. When I wrote that song and calmer my record that I was writing a worship magazine, a worship leader magazine article.

And I was curious, I just got curious. I was like, when's the first song recorded in the Bible. The first song recorded in the Bible. Some people say Genesis one is like in the form of an archaic Hebrew poem, which that's beautiful. This is kid's book land, but that's saying the earth into being and why did he do that?

Because he made the whole earth in every single one of us to sing the song of his goodness and his beauty and his light and his love. Like we were all made to do that in one way or another, but then the. Official song recorded in the Bible is the one that Merriam and Moses and all the women with the tambourine saying after the red sea and the first line of the first song recorded in the Bible is I will sing to the Lord.

And I just think that's no mistake. I think he knows that it is good. Even when we don't feel it like that, offering a sacrifice of praise or something. When we sing that connects our body to the truth that we're singing. And I don't know, it helps, it helps me. It helps me too. It helps me too. And it just reminds me of who he is like in some and that, and like the form of worship just you're right.

It points us back to truth and it points us back to who he is and who he is in the midst of our lives, which really brings me to why we're here today, because I'm so excited to talk about your new devotional. And when I saw the cover of it, I got really excited because we all remember your song fighting words.

And I love that you've taken sort of this thought and this, this sort of theme and, and turned it into a devotional book. So I just want to hear, like, what was that path like for you and God when you were like, okay, I think this is, this is more than a song. I want to encourage people through like the written word.

Yeah, I love it. It's so funny. It's definitely been a journey. Um, I swore that I would never write a book period. That's where the different be a musician. I'm basically doing all the things. That's wherever now. I guess that's, I don't know God has ordained that or something. I'm like, you have a sense of humor cause I'm like, no, no.

And finally, I really looks for children and I'm like, yes, that's okay, fine. I'll do that. Never for the adults. Sorry. I'm not doing that. And he's like, actually, yeah, I think that's a good idea. So it's been a journey, but honestly I think for me, um, I fighting words comes from that song came from, um, Uh, really a story that has transformed my life.

That is the story that started, you know, almost, almost. 14 years ago, I met a girl at a young life camp who battled depression and I'm sitting across from her one day. We became friends and kept up. We ended up at the same young life camp the next summer. Um, and I'd seen Jesus enter into, um, her story is one of battling depression.

Pastor's kid. Nobody knew that that was happening. And she was like, yeah. Looked perfect on the outside, falling apart on the inside. And God met her in that. Well, the next summer, she was just like this trophy of grace, but there are just speaking of knowing that she's not alone in that. It's not like she met Jesus in her depression all went away.

I'm not saying that God can't do that. I know that he can. He doesn't always. And so. I was sitting across from her. And there were so many lies that she was believing lies about who she was lies about who God was. And in the middle of the conversation, I started to get mad, not at her, but at the enemy who's called the father of lies.

And when. He speaks lies are his native language, that punk and just going, there are so many lies that I believe do. And I am so sick of the enemy, stealing our joy, our peace, the John 10, 10 life to the full I'd always focused on that verse. Oh, God comes to give us life to the full, but the first half of that versus the enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

But I have come to give you life and life in the full. And I was like, you know what, if God calls his word a sword. We might as well use it. I am not going down without a fight. He can eat it. And here's what he's going to eat the word of the Lord. So yes. Sort of flipping through my Bible, you know, when you're desperate, like, oh yeah.

I don't know. You're like, I need some truth. And you just flip through your Bible for anything you'd ever underlined before. You know, you're like, oh yeah, totally. Okay. I underline this. It helped at one point, like for some reason, and here it is again. So I started having her, I was like, pull out your journal.

She was like, yes ma'am. And she wrote down everything, all these verses that I don't on. And I say, you and I are going to start memorizing scripture together because. I don't think that it is enough for us to just acknowledge the lie. Like that's a part of it saying, okay, that's a lie, that's a lie. That's not true.

But what we desperately need to do is replace the lie with something stronger, which is the truth. And so we started memorizing God's word together and we call them our fighting words and it has been, um, one of the. Transformative practices of my life. And when I say that, I am not here to say that I have done this perfectly.

I'm actually right. I'm really bad at remembering. Sure. There is. I don't want anybody to ever hear this and go, like, I'm a terrible question. I haven't done it. I'm like so bad at it. Here's what's happened as we've committed, God's word to memory. And in that process, you're meditating on the word of God, because you're just trying to get it locked in.

It has changed. And it hasn't necessarily changed. Like the circumstances, right? Like again, like memorize the scripture, didn't take my friend's depression away. It didn't like, it didn't change the hard things that we were walking through, but it changed us because it gave us this like solid ground to anchor down in a shelter to, to rest under.

When the shame storm started coming in. And so I have over the years just, I mean, that's why I started writing music was because I had a hard time memorizing scripture and I just thought, well, it's really hard for me to memorize God's word, but it's so beneficial to my heart. Like it is changing the, it's helping the truth.

Thinking when people ask for advice, his word ends up coming out, or when I'm praying for someone, a lot of times I've just like ended up when it's, once it's buried in and kind of locked in there. It's like, you have. This access to like light and hope and beauty, wherever you go, whether you have a Bible or not.

And so I just thought, man, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna do this more, but I'm terrible at it. And so I started writing God's word into songs and that's why I started writing music. I just thought. If I can sing this, maybe I'll believe it. And I would sit in God's word, use it, come out. And so over the years, I've started this little corner on Instagram called fighting words Friday, where I share a verse, that's the meaningful to me.

I don't have all of those memorized, but I have a lot of them. I work to kind of commit to memory and, um, And talk just about how they've changed me and let other people comment on that. And it has been the most, it's been such a vibrant place. I think our work as followers of Jesus is to remember. And so for me, one of the best ways that I help myself remember has been.

Actually memorizing God's word and so inviting other people to do that sort of in the form of a book, um, the subtitles, like a hundred days of speaking the truth into the darkness. And that has been what, what God's word has been for me. And, and I don't understand God's word fully. There are still parts of it that I like.

Yeah. How was that? Like I, so I'm not here to be like a theological expert on anything, but I am to say that his word has been a bomb and in a shelter and an anchor and a comfort and a light to me in some really dark places. And I hope to just offer those stories in his word to people and say, come like.

Come join me. Like he sets a feast for us and I am, I settle for the crumbs under the table a lot of days. And so it's like, let's go rest together in the green pastures of his word and let it revive hearts. And so, yeah, I'm so excited to see, you know, what, just how he will use what he says, that his word.

Is is like the rains that come down from the heavens and don't return to the heavens without first nourishing the earth and causing it to bud and flourish. So is the word that goes out of my mouth. It will accomplish the purposes for which I sent it. And so in some ways I'm just sending out his word of thing.

Well, and I can't wait to see the flourishing and the nourishment and the comfort and the hope that will come from that because it's just who he is. And it's what his word does. It's just who he is. I love that so much. It's so good. So one of the things that we talk about around here a lot is this idea of radiance that we see across scripture, as you're talking about memorizing God's word, it makes me think of like, just everything that we are about around here.

And when God really started steering me in this direction for the, for the podcast, he kept bringing that verse in Psalm 34 to mine. It's verse five. It says those who look to him are radiant and their faces are never covered in shame. Yeah. And I was on a podcast interview the other day, and this girl is asking me great questions, questions that she should be asking me when, when it comes to radiance.

I mean, things like, okay, Rebecca, well, what does it me, like, what does it mean to be radiant? What does, how do I, how do we become more radiant, like logical questions? Right. And so, but I was struggling to answer because I think I was trying to come up. Like this list of things to do. Right. And I finally just looked at her and I said, you know, I could tell you a lot of things to do that would produce maybe this radiance in our lives.

Right? Like we, we read scripture, we meditate on God's word. We invest in community. We memorize scripture, but at the end of the day, and this is where the holy spirit came in and was just like, okay, this is it. Radiance is the by-product of all of those things, right? Like when you abide in me, when you meditate on scripture, when you spend time in my word, when you develop a vibrant prayer life, like radiance is what happens in you.

It's not the thing that we're striving for. That's not what this is about, but it's actually the thing that happens in us. As it, as we, you know, walk into the world with God's word on our hearts and in our minds, that radiance is what comes out of that. And I just love that. That's what you're leading us towards in, in this message.

It's so needed Ellie, right now. We like, we need this, we need fighting words so bad now, more than more than ever. And you know, one of the things as. Just preparing for this and kind of reading the back cover of the book I've seen about loneliness and how much we struggle with that right now, probably in a different, and I would argue maybe more severe way than we ever happened before.

Yeah. How either in your friend's life or, or in your life, have you seen that be combated as. As you've walked more fully into this journey of, of developing your fighting, where it's like, what does that, what does that look like for you and God? Yeah, I think, um, I think for me, I love, I love everything that you just said.

And I, that verse the Psalm 34 verses is one of the. It's one of the devotions of fighting stop. I love that. It is one of my very, it's one of the 100 days, but it's very favorites and it's so interesting, I guess for me, um, it is, it is. And my mom has always said this. She's like, you cannot get in the presence of God.

You can't come before the Lord in prayer and talk to him. And it's impossible to spend time with him and to stay the same can't happen. And so it always used to make me so mad, um, that when I would want advice or how do I deal with this drama at school or, or, you know, this hard situation, what should I do?

Eddie go ask him, go talk to him, go talk to him. Let's go, pray, go pray for that person. That's hard for you. And I used to get so mad and I'm like, why do you always say that? I just want you to tell me what to do. She gave me tons of advice too. Don't worry. She could definitely do that too. But her biggest thing was.

If you get in his presence, what he is intending for your heart, even in this trial, even in this hard thing will come to fruition, it will come to fruition. And so I think for me, um, I've, I've started, there's this beautiful poet. His name is Hafiz. And, um, he always says, he talks about talking to the friend, like the capital friend, God.

So. I think for me, um, in this season and in different seasons that have been really lonely. Um, and this is a pronounced loneliness season, the isolation season, I think for a lot of us. Um, I, I think about how often I forget that I can talk to the friend, like I can just come. As I am because of who Jesus is.

We can come as we are with our questions, with our doubt, shaking our fists and go, we can come mad. We can come sad. We can come carrying shame or regret. Um, like we can come as we are stumbling and tripping to the foot of the cross. And I think in some ways, memorizing scripture has helped me do that, especially in the Psalms because David is so good at that.

He's so human. Like if David. King David was our president. Like he would be in trouble, you know, he was a mess and yet he was so good at pouring his heart out towards the Lord. And, um, I've heard Tim Keller say this in a sermon before, but, um, What got like, he talks about how we should take God at his word and quote his word that like, God, David is always doing God, you said this, you said this God.

And, and what are you? Uh, Sarah Gilmore always says, what are you going to do? God,

that's like a very honest way. Like, what are you going to do about, this is what you said. And so he just, I've heard Tim Keller say when we quote God's word back to him, um, in prayer, what father would not love to hear from their child? You said this dad, you said this. And so I think there's been this beautiful thing that's happened in a way as, as I've learned to pray scripture, I've learned to memorize scripture and then pray it back to him.

Um, I feel like in a weird way, it's given me boldness to just come as I am with all of everything to grieve, to weak, to limit, um, and the presence of God. And, and to know that I am. Accepted and welcome and beloved, even in those really broken places. Yeah. That's so beautiful. I love that. And I'm even thinking, you know, we talk a lot about walking into, you know, what God has for us and, and kind of connecting our gifts and talents with, okay.

How do we serve God in that, around here? Like we have conversations about that, that wrestling out of that a lot and even a songwriter for a long time. Right. And I'm wondering. Like, as you walked into this journey of writing a book that you never thought you would do. Right. What even you did God do as you kind of shifted from like songwriter mode to writing devotionals, because that's, those are two very different things, right?

Like what. What was that? Literally? Yeah. Children's books are way easier. Cause they're honestly like I, I was, and listen, I had some discussions I'm probably like, not supposed to say it it's promoting the book, but I had, it was so hard. I basically what I say. And it's probably like the story that I'll tell them, like, this is fun.

Um, because of the time. Um, with COVID everything being delayed and everything, the deadline to turn it in got moved up. So I ended up finishing a record and working on this book at the same time, which I highly don't recommend, like for like mental health wise. Um, I was like, oh my gosh. Oh Lord. But what was so beautiful as, because I had started a lot of these things, we kind of, as a starting place, started with these, like, Uh, with what I had shared on Instagram over the years, like starting versus and took just, but I'm not writing a book level of content, so it's just a little bit, right.

So it was like, it was pitched to me like, oh, see, you've already wrote, you've already written this basically. Right. Where'd you start done. Okay. And really prayed about it and felt like I was saying like, yes, this is a good thing. This is my word. Like, like really felt like peace. Well, what I didn't really know that I was signing up for is, as I was editing this book, that God would be editing my heart.

And so me. The writer, the author, you know, like supposedly the professional I'm like, uh, I still do not have this.

Of course, I have to be editing this for the seventh time. You know, it's just so many rounds and it was so beautiful because as it turns out, it is true. You can not be in the presence of God and your heart not be changed. And so it was just, it was so beautiful because I think sometimes you can tell a story looking back, oh, God's word meant so much to me.

Here in this place and what was happening as I was really in over my head with work and family and the kids were at home. I mean, it was just, it was an intense season for all of us who were like working from home and trying to manage studio and then working on the book. What so often what happened is it would leave me.

That's a hurt with leaving into intimacy with him. I'd be just like, get this done and stressed out. And he's like, do not miss me here now, right now, this is for you. This table is set for you. This truth is still for you. You still need to hear this today in a different way than you did yesterday. I said there are several times when.

I'm writing. And then I'm like, man, even just now thinking about his word, being an active and sharper than a double-edged sword, which really is actually in reference to Jesus, that whole thing. And the Hebrew is the scripture. In and of itself that we have today, wasn't in existence when Hebrews was written.

And so I love, I love that his word is alive and then it's all manifested in the person of Jesus, but that is. Thing about scripture. I'm like, oh, just get ready, buckle up when you it's dividing to the soul of the spirit. And so he was so kind to me and writing this to remind me, this is still what you need.

And I am drawing you deeper in and higher up into me. And, and don't miss what I'm doing here. And actually I have you in over your head for a reason because you know that you need me. And so in some ways, this is. This, the record that I just released in this book are more prayed over anything I've ever done, because I'm like, oh Lord, I do not have enough in me come Jesus.

And so I'm so looking forward to see. Just how he'll continue to use his word as even I'm reminded as other people say, oh, I connected with this day. I just, I still look forward to seeing him love us all enough, to not leave us as we are to continue to draw near, to say, you don't have to carry this, lay that down.

That is not something that you need. So I'm looking forward to that. Wow. That's beautiful. I love that. And I, as I've talked to different authors and you have conversations like this, it's so sweet to see how the Lord meets us all in different ways. But it seems like when I talked to my friends about their books, it's always this recurring theme of like, this is the Anthem of like my actual soul.

Right. You know, like when he leads us into like a message or a song or an album or a book, it's really like, okay, this is the deep heart work Lord that you have done in me for years. And now like the world gets to hear about it. Right, right. And. Yeah, it's so good. And I mean, that is, that's just it, right?

And that's like this record that I just wrote too. It's like, I, this is what I have needed. Like, this is what my soul desperately needed. And I think sometimes you walk through seasons like that. And these lessons sometimes like truth is hard. The truth will set us free. The truth will set us free. It has over and over and over again for me, but it doesn't mean that the truth of being a human in a broken world is not hard to bear or stand up in or to own.

Um, but there is like a truer truth, right? Underneath all of our brokenness, um, of this current of love that is, that is ever present. Um, and that kind of runs deeper than our deepest places of brokenness and what God is in the business of doing is taking the things that we've missed. That. They'd hard to learn taking our brokenness, the broken places in our story and say, I will meet you even there and watch how I turn this place that you think is wound that you think ends at the grave and watch.

Watch me resurrect life out of this watch he'll watch me comfort. Watch me use your broken, open heart and pour my love through actually a wider Conduent, a wider conduit than was ever there before. And, um, it is backwards and upside down, you know, like it's not easy for se, but it is a beautiful and worth.

Yeah, I agree. That's so beautiful. Well, I am so excited that canyon is going to be like the Anthem of this season of my life. Like I said, I look back to your previous albums and I think like I remember red sea road. I was single in that season. I was really struggling with like, I was in 1,000,001 weddings and like, when's it going to be my turn?

Like it was that season of my mid twenties. I think about that. When I think of red sea road. Now I'm in the season where, um, I'm writing my first book and I'm. I'm just saying yes to God for this whole podcast. And, um, I just love, like, it's been the Anthem of my workdays for the last few days. Just like getting ready to talk to you.

And I love, I love that because you have been, and like I said, a part of my life for a long time. And so I'm so excited about fighting words. I'm so excited about canyon and just all got us doing. We are going to hop on over to our Patrion community for a quick little bonus round with Ellie before we let her go.

But I want everybody to go grab fighting words and the new album, wherever you listen to music and grab your books. But Ellie, I just want to say a huge, huge, thank you for all God's done through all the yeses. You have said to God that have impacted my life and for this, this new book, I'm sorry.

Absolutely. It's a joy. And I love that you said that because I think one of the best things is as a surrender yes. In the hands of a God who loves us, even when we have to go scared, you know, you're like, okay, I don't know why you're calling me to this. You're like, it's just somebody else. Are you sure?

And that doesn't have to be a book or a podcast. It could be that, but it could be a conversation with a stranger. It could be a conversation with a neighbor. It could be an apology or, or repenting for something it could be saying yes to helping somebody make spreadsheets. Who's really struggling being organized.

I just think there are thousands of women that we can give her surrendered yes. To him. And I just want to encourage you if you're listening. That the beauty of being alive is entering into that, that partnership of getting to say, okay, I'm going to say yes to where you're leading me, even though I'm not sure that I'm the right person for the job.

Yes. Yes. I agree. I agree. Well, you do this so beautifully and it's just an honor to get to chat with you. So thank you for being on today.