Episode 125. Breaking Free From Body Shame with Jess Connolly

Unedited Transcript

Jess. I am so beyond excited to have you today. Thank you so much for being here. Literally my joy. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. I was telling you before we hit record, I, I mean, I get excited about every conversation I have on the show, but there are books that just means so much like to your story.

You know, and, and you have the opportunity to read them before you have a conversation. This was one that just really meant a lot to me. Here's what you need to know. I read the entire book on a flight. Uh, I just devoured it a couple of months ago when I first got it. Hmm. You know that moment when you're on a flight and the wheels lock you've landed.

And there's that panic moment for everybody of like, do I get up and rush and try to get out? And it just becomes like so stressful for everybody in this situation. Okay. So I'm in the back of the plane and I'm holding the book because everything else is just, I've got the backpack, all the things. And this girl to my left looks at me and she kind of looks at the book.

Um, and she finally looks at me and she goes, so what are you reading? And I was like, can I tell you about it? And I was like, ready to go run some laps. And so I was like, listen, your body is good. Your body is not a project. I have five seconds to tell you what God did in me through this book. And it just was a really sweet moment.

So yeah. I devoured it. And I'm so excited to talk about it today and have you, so this is the best, so grateful to hear it. Also, I love full circle because if you've read the book, then I think I talked about this in the book that I started writing it on an airplane and was having one of those moments where it's like out of a movie because the flight attendants, like please shut down your laptop.

And I was like, Ugh. Now, like I can't shut my laptop. I have you, I honor your work, but give me a minute. Yeah. And that's when you like switched to your iPhone notes, a notes app on your phone and you keep going. Yeah, that's awesome. I love it so much circle. It really is full circle. I hadn't thought about that.

I love that. You know, one of the things at the very beginning that you kind of establish with the readers is that you want. The book to be a brave space. I love that language that you use. So I want to start there, like, why was that verbiage important to you? Yeah, well, I first heard, uh, that great is from Latasha Morrison and actually I was interviewing her for a podcast and, um, I don't think she coined the phrase, but she was the first person I heard say it.

And I was interviewing for her for a podcast. And I think I said something like, okay, this is a safe space, Tasha. Uh, what do you think about this? And she said, um, Just FYI, like this isn't a safe space. And she said, you know, something along the lines of like, I'm, I'm continually growing. I'm hoping you're continually growing.

So, um, we don't really want to like stay safe. We don't, we don't want to. And as soon as she said that, everything in my soul woke up and I was like, right. I don't want that. I don't, I don't want my soul to stay like culturally safe to where I. I never experienced a little bit of risk or adventure. Um, I want to be brave.

I w I to move into places where I haven't been before. And I think that, I think that as readers, as people who read books in general, or consume content any in any way, shape or form, whether it's podcasts or books, or even like the TV. TV shows we watch, you know, there's this, there's this phenomenon where I think a lot of times we can kind of get in a RET of really like reading the thing that we already agree with.

Right. Or like listening to the podcast that we already agree with. And sometimes that's helpful. It solidifies what we think, or it gives us language, um, or it enables us to share it with someone. I knew going into this, that even as I was writing it, like, as I was studying and researching and looking at God's word, I was like a lot of this.

I D I, no one's been telling me this. No, one's been telling people this, this isn't like, and I don't, I don't say that, like, I I've got the corner on this. I'm the only one time I just, I just, it's not something we'll have touched a lot or talked about a lot. And so, um, I knew we were gonna all need a little bravery.

I do. I. And a little bravery. Um, but yeah, it, I think the one thing I want to say about it being a brave space, as opposed to being a safe space is, um, I think my most unfavorite phrase is the phrase fearless leader. I actually hate it when people say it like, oh, she's a fearless leader. He's a fearless leader.

Oh. I feel like I actually don't want any thing to do with a fearless leader. If there's a leader who doesn't have fear. Um, if there was even a human who doesn't experience fear like that is, there's probably something psychologically wrong with them because, because when things matter, they're scary, terrifying.

We care about something thing. Uh, it matters. And so. That being said, we can't experience bravery until we feel scared. We can't even access courage until we're scared. And so I know there are a lot of women who are maybe scared to talk about body image or what God says about it, or to dip their toe into this water, trying to figure out what it looks like to dismantle cultures hold on our hearts in this way.

But I would say number one, great news. You can't even be brave until you're skiers. You're scared you're in the right spot. And also, yeah, we don't want to, we don't want to be safe. We don't want to come out of this thing. This life only having this one, like tidy perspective. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. So at the very kind of jump street of the book, you Chronicle the story from your childhood that, um, I think a lot of women, I mean, I'm including myself in this camp, probably identify with.

To some degree. I think a lot of us have a similar story of where we experienced, um, shame over our bodies maybe for the first time, or we maybe remember one of those moments. And you share about this idea of like living in the now and not yet. I want you to talk about that. Yeah. I mean, this is really the crux of talking about body image when it won't as believers is that we have to identify, um, okay.

There was, there was an original design, there was a, there was a good part. There was a really good part of this story. So good. It was really wonderful. God made our bodies and he called them good. You originally made creation and call them good. And I believe the same thing applies to us, even though we were, yeah.

Maybe born, obviously not maybe born, definitely born after, um, the entry of sin into the world, because God just doesn't make bad things. He can't make bad things. He can't make flawed things. He can't be a good and holy and perfect God and make bad things. And so there was this good start for all of us.

And then. There was the world. And so we're now in this kind of tense part where our bodies break and our bodies age and our bodies get injured. And, um, they're born with genetic deficiencies or differences. Um, and. And so here we sit in this tension and I think as humans, we're kind of constantly trying to figure out what does this mean?

What does this tension mean? What does this pain mean? What does, what's the purpose behind it? And what does God think about it for those of us who believe in God? And what does it mean about our bodies? There's all sorts of different, you know, body image, theories, there's body positivity right now, which is a movement that has done such good and is gaining just wild.

Momentum has been really for the last 70 years. This idea like your body is good. It's just good period. But where I believe that that, um, we're body positivity kind of lacks in depth is that this area for us as believers, that we're like, my buddy is good, but also. It feels weak. Yeah. And also it feels pain.

And I need to know what God says about that, that I need to know what he feels about that. Um, you know, I think back to like the passage in Matthew, when, when people bring advantage you, this who's blind and they're like, whose fault was this? What happened here? You know? Um, we want to know what God says about that.

So, so we live. Doctrine tells us that we live in the now and not yet at the kingdom. There are some things that we have access to here. There are some kingdom things that we have access to by grace, through faith. Um, and also there's some not yet to it in that our bodies are not yet made whole, our bodies are not yet restored.

Um, not every tear has been wiped away from us. Just yet. We S we live in this tension of being human. Um, and for me, the idea of the now, and not yet reality of my body actually brings me a lot of comfort. I can live with this from truth of how he created me as good. I can live with this future redemption in mind.

He's going to wipe away every tear, but I also live with this tension of, and also not everything's. Okay. Right. And that, that grieves, God, you sad for me about that? Yeah. Good. And like, we can talk to him about it and like, we can have conversations with him about it. And how long have we, like you said in the very beginning of we just not, we just ignored it or we've went to like that opposite extreme of body positivity where we just totally ignore our brokenness.

Right. Like, which is, which is leaving out. A huge part of like some pretty important theology, but like, we can, you can talk about it and we can ask God what he, what he thinks about our bodies. And we can, we can search scripture for that. And that's so good. So, so good. One of the things I pulled a couple of quotes that I loved from, from the book, one of them.

So. So you say in the kingdom, you are not the one naming your body. Good. It is not your thought repeated over and over again, until you believe yourself, you're taking your cues. And following the father who created the universe, the deafening roar of the lion of Judah is breaking chains of shame, darkness, and defeat with this proclamation of protection over his beloved.

This. Is my daughter. I made her body good in my image. Let no one say otherwise her body is good. So if somebody is listening today and they're like, okay, yeah, Jess, okay. Yeah, Rebecca, this all sounds great, but like I'm at the rock bottom starting place of like, I want it experience the freedom. I don't even know where to turn.

I don't even know where to start. Like how would you want to encourage. Hmm, that's such a good question. And I do, I love that quote because it, because it's the part of the answer. Um, the first thing I would tell her, if we're just talking to encouragement, I would say like, here's the great news. You don't have to be the strongest one in the room.

If you're at rock bottom, you experiencing freedom. Absolutely not dependent on you. Yeah. You don't have to muster it up. You don't have to work for it. There is a reason why there's not 12 steps in this book. I'm not saying it won't take time. I'm not saying it won't take intention on our part, but the deafening roar of the lion of Judah.

Crying over your life and your body. This is good. This is my daughter. Leave her alone. And I do believe that like, when we, like, when we start to tune our ear to that roar and we start to realize like, this is God's fight. This is his idea. This is like, I keep telling Robin all the time. I'm like, you have to remember like freedom.

Is his idea. Not, not only is it his idea, he financed it. He purchased it on the cross of Christ. Like he is going to do the heavy lifting. He is going to be the strongest one in the room. There's going to be some learning for us to take place some swapping out of truth. There may be some, some ways we change our behavior that we worship different.

Just, just to agree with what he's done, but it's okay. If you feel like you're at rock bottom, you do not have to climb up. You do not have to climb out of that pit. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. Okay. So one of the pieces that I think was most convicting to me was this idea of, um, Just the quest for a better body.

So I am an achiever personality. I always have been. And so before I got married, I got married a couple of years ago. I was in the season long season of singleness and I, um, I had always been a runner, but I ran several marathons during that season. And I remember. I remember when I trained for my first marathon and it was all about like, oh, I just want to cross that finish line.

I just want to reach that goal. And I can't wait. Can't wait to experience that and see what that feels like in my body. And, and I almost tried to convince myself, like, if I just have the goal, then it no longer is about my body. It's about the goal. And so it worked for a while and I did the marathon. And, but, but the problem was I would cross the finish line and it was never enough.

And so I'd sign up for another marathon and I would train even harder. I would get up even earlier and I would, I would do more. I would add more mileage. I would drink more water. I would just, I mean, everything that I could possibly do to get faster because, um, I mean, I didn't have anything else that was really tying up the time and attention that would go towards a family or kids or whatever.

Um, I was discipling college girls in an sec town and running marathons. Like that was my life. But when I read this chapter, It really, really just brought back a lot of that for me. So the quest for a better body, you say this is one of my favorite quotes. We can pull pluck squat detox, where the spanks drink the water, take the vitamins, use the supplement, slather the potions, do the yoga, wash our faces to our heart's content.

But hear me, as long as you remain convinced that your body is your responsibility alone to fix your heart. Be content. And so that was one of the pieces that was super convicting to me. So for somebody who is coming to this conversation today as an achiever, which I know a lot of our listeners are in the same camp.

What do you want to speak over that girl? Well, I'll tell you that. Here's one thing I want to free you up right now, because even what you just said, not let, not that you need to get free, but you know what I'm saying? I want to even just get some encouragement where you, and you just said, uh, cause I didn't have anything else going on.

Like I was just discipling women. I didn't have kids. And like you got free from that striving because God's might be in you. And because it's because you're so free. And women who have kids and 18 of them or 12 or two, and have full-time jobs get tripped up by striving. So it is like it, I just want to even just encourage you like that.

Ah, listen, I've got four kids and I can get wrapped up in some striving about a half marathon. Yeah,

super quick. Um, and, and, and I'll even just be vulnerable because we're going to need to have this conversation a few weeks, post book lunch, um, you know, as an author, like what I want to do as equip women, I want to equip and encourage women. That's all I want to do with my whole life. And yet around book launch, you get just, you're just getting a little tripped up with like, The numbers and the people and like, and did we hit this list or that list?

And, um, I had a moment with my team on book launch day where the, the numbers that we typically watch coming in for book lunch weren't happening. It was a weird day, was Amazon prime day. So Amazon was being funky and we were like, oh, this is just interesting. Like the things we usually watch aren't working.

And we were all kind of like getting tripped up about it a little bit. And we, our office happens to be here at my church. And so I was like, that's it. We're going to the sanctuary. Like we're going to go to the sanctuary. We went, I was like, we're just going to talk to God. And I just had to say out loud, I had to repent.

I said, God, you did not set me free from one scale to make me the slave of another, oh, here, how this book goes. I do not care it with what it listed hits. I don't care. It's never only happens. I'm like you did not. So that'd be one skill to make me subject to another Jesus name. I'm sorry. Let's move on.

And I say that, I say like, it's just our nature. Like we just, we get tripped up. We just get tripped up sometimes and it happens. And so, um, the, the most beautiful thing I think we can say to one another is we can ask this question. This is, and I'll tell you, this is my spiritual gift. Um, I think my spiritual gift is saying like, Like cocking my head to the side and like, you know, saying like really when people ask something, because I think a lot of times when we talk about goals, so we could talk about fitness goal, we could talk about crossing the finish line in a certain time.

We can talk about hitting a certain number on the scale. We can talk about being a certain size, or we can talk about, you know, actual goals, like making a certain amount of money or having a certain amount of kids or getting some sort of accolade in your community. And there's this question that we ask ourselves and we say like, Hey, how will you feel when that happens?

Like, how will you feel when that happens? And I think our, our, our human response. Is like, I'll feel like success or I'll feel like I've achieved something or I'll feel like I worked harder. I'll feel proud of myself. And again, I feel like my spiritual gift is a little bit to come alongside and to like, really?

Yeah. Well you, yeah, you will, you for 30 minutes. Yeah. Will you, or will you feel like, all right, what's next. Let's let's conquer the next hill. Um, cause this is what our souls do and this, and the reason why it's not anybody's fault. It's not because the accolade has never enough. It's not because there's something there's something wrong with us.

It's just what our souls were made for. Our souls were not meant to be fulfilled by. Earthly longings and, and by earthly desires and early accolades. And so, um, I think one of the best things that we can do is to look at one another and just say like, really isn't that really what you want? Or is it to be just massively tricking you into something I've talked to a lot of women this summer in particular with the book coming out and in light of vacations, I'm talking to a lot of women who say like either, um, you know, I've just been working really hard to get ready for my vacation to get my body ready.

Or I'm really discouraged or defeated about, about my body. And so therefore I'm worried I'm not going to enjoy it. Um, but in both conversations, the coolest thing I've been able to like to pull out of women and hear them say is the women who are like, I worked really hard and blah, blah, blah, blah. I got whatever I felt like was gonna feel great on vacation in my body.

And so I've been able to say like, did it make your vacation better? Did it did, was it more fun? Did you rest harder? And every single one was like, Yeah, no, I, I, then I felt like I was worried I was going to gain weight back or then I felt insecure the whole time because I, um, I wasn't working out as hard as I was before the vacation, or, um, I honestly was just obsessed with my own body.

And even, even when it felt good, it was glorifying myself. And I know that's not what my soul is meant to do. And so then I didn't feel good or it put a wedge between me and my friends, because they were sick of me talking about it so much as I was like, yeah, it does. Actually work. And then to the women who were worried, they wouldn't enjoy their vacations.

I would say like, did it actually make your day worse? That your body, wasn't what you hoped it would look like where it was, the ice cream, any less sweet was your kid's laughter any less like slightly annoying, but also fun. No, it doesn't, it doesn't actually change anything about your actual life, the way you and the way you experience God, um, to a certain degree, like how we feel about our looks, does it have to affect that anyways, all that being said, um, That's the question I'm asking, like really?

Is it ever going to be enough? Is it ever going to be enough? And the answer is probably not. Yeah, I've never thought about it that way, but I can look back over my entire life and every season of striving that I've had. I, like I said, at the very beginning, it's never been enough for me. I've never reached a finish line.

I've never tried on a swimsuit in a season where I've been striving for whatever. And it felt like it still didn't feel like enough. Right. And, um, it's proof of what you're just saying. Okay. I love. Your post the other day, you saying the word ice cream made me think of this. When you talked about like, can we stop talking about it being cheating and can we just call it freedom?

Like that was the best. Um, I mean, I tell you what, aye. Aye, aye. Aye. The things that become the things that your ears began to pick up on when you like break free from body shame, you're writing a book like this, or read a book like this and I'm sure you've heard it now too. Like once you read it, you all of a sudden here we are talking about things real funky second.

Like what did you just say? Um, and it's. So normal, it just seems so normal. I mean, um, I think that night in particular, I was on vacation with my kids and, and my husband. And, uh, we went to go order ice cream and I had had a thought of like, man, I'm glad, thank you, God. I'm glad that my kids may have had really early memories or past memories of me being like, I'm good guys, you know, like, Really, my mom has some goals she's working on.

You know, they may have some memories of that. I'm not shaming. Anyone who does that or feels that way. Um, just for me in this season, freedom looks like me. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to enjoy some ice cream with you guys. You crazy little kiddos. And, um, And that's what freedom feels like. And so I was, I thought that, but while we were ordering ice cream that night, I think I commented to someone who is beside us in line.

It was like, Ooh, this looks so good. I'm going to have to get two different flavors. Cause these both look so good. And the woman standing in front of me, he was like, it'll be worth it though. Tomorrow when we have to work it off. And I was like, Ooh, I. Wait, why? Like why, why is everything about checks and balances?

And. I don't know. So I I'm really hearing and noticing and I'm cringing at the like cheat reward. Yeah. Like even, even the way we, even though when we, we treat our bodies as really as if they're right. This inanimate object far away from us that needs to be like poked prodded, man. Yeah, yeah. Rather than our actual selves, our actual bodies.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, can both a scoop of ice cream and a four mile run on the beach without a Garmin watch on like, can we just call them both free? Can we, yes, a hundred percent or like, listen, where are your Garmin watch? Also, if freedom for you is like working on your splits. I say in Jesus, and that's what I tell women all the time.

Like it gets to be what, uh, yesterday everyone was like, so do you just, do you, when you see up that woman now, do you just think that she just must be in bondage? And I was like, number one, what does fit mean? What do you mean when you say you see a fit woman? What does that mean? And I want to be like, listen, I think a bit like you, I think I've going after God in my own body, you would, you might not look at me and think that, but I'm living free.

I'm doing what God's asked me to do. Um, and so this isn't a, this is like the worst thing I think somebody could hear me saying is that like, it's up for us to judge who's being free and who's not that's. I, I. I couldn't be further from the truth. Um, freedom for some people might be wearing the garment watch and for some people it really might not be.

And, and, and the coolest thing is that we get to listen to God about what that is for us, what that looks like for us. But I, I harp on the ice cream, they just, because it's so cultural to talk about it as. Um, as if it's this dangerous thing, that's just going to hold us back or throw us off or just totally mess us up.

Yeah. Yeah. So good. You know, one of the other things that I think you did so beautifully to set people up in this area is the whole conversation at the end of the book about preparing responses before you get in the midst of a conversation that you don't know how to. Yeah, that was so powerful for me. I want people to get their hands on the book so they can really dig in and like pray through what that looks like for them.

But like, why was that important to you? Yeah, it was important for me because I think sometimes, sometimes it's as simple as we just need a little bit of language. Like we can all agree on something spiritually, but we're not super sure how to say it. I do think that when we change the language, we changed the culture.

And so part of what needs to happen for all of us to experience some cultural healing, some corporate healing and revival is that we need some like, pauses to be like, hold on this thing, we're all saying, that's not it. We've got to stop saying that. I would say an example, um, is this another one is an example of this is, um, I've told a handful of women, this like, okay, Hey, if you want to do something today, you want to change your language today.

When you go out with your friends or when you guys are meet up or you're a women's ministry gathering, or you're at a church, or even your family, if you take a group picture, um, we have this cultural phenomenon where we all gather around the phone. To say negative things about our body and just say like, oh my Haiti.

Or like, oh my gosh, my thighs are like, look at my face. This one just don't do that. It's just stopped doing that. Yeah. And we'll change the world. Um, and the reason why, yeah, the reason why it matters is because language changes, culture and small little behaviors like that shift everything. And so the last thing I wanted was a bunch of women who are spiritually awakened ready for freedom, but just didn't have the tools to, to a little bit change language.

And yeah, it's unfortunately, just so incredibly commonplace. For women and then to talk negatively about each other's bodies, but it's apparently just. Widespread, uh, I believe just a widespread problem that we talk negatively about our own bodies. So I even wanted to equip women to have language, to encourage the people in their lives when they would speak negatively about their own bodies.

Like, what are you doing? Your friend is just ravaging, how she looks and it's, and it's kind of making you uncomfortable and sad. I don't want to judge this woman. I don't want to call them up. I don't want to call them out, but I do want to call them up to something. Yeah. Yeah, all of that's in there, but, but my favorite one, uh, that I like to hand to everybody just right off the bat is that you can just say, that's interesting.

That's interesting. Um, if someone's talking negatively about their body and you don't want to be like, oh no, no, you're wrong. Don't say that. You can just say like, oh, okay. That's interesting. If someone's talking negatively about my body. I'm okay. That's interesting. And if they dig in more, I can say, like, it's interesting that you feel the freedom to comment on my body, or it's interesting that you ascribed this value or that value to this thing or that thing.

Um, but it just, I think the, the phrase that's interesting puts a little bubble between me and whoever's talking to you just say, like, I'm not I'm out of this. Yeah. I don't think I'm going to that trail. I don't think I'm going to like, grab onto that rope and let it drag me. So. Yeah, that's so good. Okay. I, you saying the story about looking back at the group pictures reminded me of a moment that I just you're going to be so proud.

Okay. So I, okay. I read the whole book on the plane, right? So back to that, that trip, I was going to Orlando for a trip for work. And there was a day that, um, had a few hours free one evening and. I couldn't talk anybody to go into going with me, but I went to SeaWorld because like I said, Orlando and the world is opening back up and I just needed to do something fun.

And so I went by myself, which that was the best. Like if you've ever been to the part by yourself, it was the most, I want to do it right now of my life. It was so fun. And so I got there and what you need to know about me also. Yeah. My favorite animals, a child was dolphins. Like I had a dolphin room. I wanted to be a dolphin trainer.

When I grew up. This was before all of the stuff that happened with, we all know the story about the dolphin trainer and all that is before all that. And, um, I told my husband a few years ago, um, I've never swam with dolphins. Like I've never done the thing where you go and you like swim with dolphins.

And I told him when I signed my first book deal. That's what I want to do. I want to go swim with dolphins to celebrate. Like, I just think that'd be so fun because I've never done it. And so a couple of weeks before I went to Orlando, We pitched my book. And so we're in, we're in the process of, of all of that.

And, um, this feels real Tinder because I signed my book deal yesterday. So I'd like to get like today, like, but so I'm, I go down to like the dolphin exhibit and. I remember going when I was like 10 years old with my parents and you could like pet the dolphins and it was like the greatest moment of my life.

And so I'm like reliving this childhood memory and I just went down and there's tons of people, but I just stood there and I just, I just talked to God for like 30 minutes. I just prayed over the book. I prayed over. Just say he would close the wrong doors and open all the right doors, all the things. And so I asked this lady before I left, if she would take a picture of me with the dolphin thing in the background and she was so kind.

And so she took the picture and then she goes, yeah. So like, do you make sure it like, look at it and make sure, like, make sure it's good before I leave. I was like, listen, I don't need to see you. Like I do not need to see it. It's perfect. And like, you're the best. And it just, that was the first moment though, that I really was able to be like, wait, no.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. That was the best I could not love that more. That's so amazing. And here's the reason why, I mean, at this is what I'm told is what I've told a few friends. Like, this is why this is actually life changing. This is why it's actually like world changing is because number one, like you step into your own freedom.

You agree? Like. I'm good. And so whatever we agree with God, wild, good things happen. Number one, it probably changed that woman's life. It actually really changed her life that she was like, mom shows you the picture. Why? Why is she so competent? Why didn't, you know, I mean, this is like classic biblical, like always be ready to be prepared, to have an answer for the hope that you have, like, you know, like this is classic 20, 21, how we show the hope that we have.

And then also on top of that, I believe a beautiful after effect is that women are going to start posting more realistic pictures, which is great because we're all lying.

And so it's, we're going to start to be like, oh, that's what an arm is supposed to look like. An arm actually takes up space. Right? Takes up a little bit of a space sometimes, or maybe it doesn't like maybe, you know what I'm saying? Like open, but it's actually very beautiful for women to different shapes and sizes.

It's actually very good for women to have dimples potentially on their skin or moles or freckles or wrinkles. All of these things are good and holy in God's sight. And so that's why it just has such residual continuum. Good stuff. I'm so grateful. Yeah. It matters so much matters so much. Okay. Before we go over to our Patrion community, I just want you to share you're doing all this stuff for the kingdom of God.

Like all the cool things I want you to tell people, like, where can they find you? Where can they learn more about go and tell gals all the time? You're so encouraging. So, uh, I'm just a Connolly on Instagram. And um, if you guys follow me there, you will be some of the few people who do not think my name is Jessa and I'll be so grateful because it's not on it's just, and when people call me Jess, I don't get mad, but just so you know, it's just a, as my middle initial, I couldn't get my normal name on Instagram.

I'm still working on it. Um, and go and tell gals is the organization. I run that equips. Men to take their next step in, in God's calling on their life. So we coach authors and speakers and podcasters and small business owners and women in ministry. Um, and we also help licensed coaches. We help other women become coaches because we believe that that's a really cool gifting that we want to see flourish in this next season of the women of God.

So you can buy me on, go and tell gals.com or Jess connolly.com Jess a commonly on Instagram, or go and tell her. Awesome. Good deal. Well, thank you for riding. One of, I think the most important books that has came out for women in such a long time, I'm just so, I'm so grateful for your words and impact they've had on me.

And I just can't wait for everybody to get their hands on the book. So join us over on Patrion. If you do subscribe over there and you'll get to know Jess a little bit better in our bonus interview with her, but for now, I just want to say a huge thank you you for being with me today. Thank you for having me.